Limiting Terran Lift-Off

[mr. peasant]

I think the incentive for limiting lift-off is more for end game situations where both sides are unable to produce more units (e.g. base races, resource exhaustion, etc). Let's say a Protoss player is left with a strong army of Zealots and Colossi where as the Terran player has no forces left and is just a bunch of production buildings with no supply. By right, the Protoss player ought to win but the Terran can simply lift-off and simply wait until the other player leaves, thus 'winning' the match.

Yet, if the exact situation was reversed (e.g. a Terran force of Marauders and Siege Tanks where as the Protoss only had unpowered buildings), the Terran player is the clear winner and there is nothing the Protoss player can do to alter this outcome.

If the races are to be balanced, Terrans should not be allowed to use such a cheap trick to alter the outcome of a match.

[rdragon87]

I'm against changing Lift-off, mostly because the it doesn't deserve changing for those few games where they force a draw. Should we change it so island expansions die if you can't reach them at the end? It would be just as frustrating for T if they only had marauders left, and an Extractor/Assimilator survived on an island expo.

I get that it's lame that sometimes one has to tolerate this happening, and I get that it is frustrating because it is easy for T to do. However, I suggest planning ahead against T (read: hide an air unit or two away) and remembering names of players who have done it to you before. Maybe they can add a report player option like unsportsmenlike conduct or something.

[Dalarsco]

But that situation is incredibly rare. How often do both players completely destroy each other's mineral lines and command buildings, without enough left to build a new one? There are two solutions to that. The first is to hide a single air unit in some corner of the map just in case, and the other is to make sure you can rebuild after the attack that your opponent just failed at.

[//MavericK\\]

Another thread is suggesting a draw option be implemented and I think this would solve this whole issue.

If neither player can complete the win condition of destroying all buildings, then the match is a draw.

That means if the one player cannot field any units that can destroy the opposing Terran player's last remaining building(s), both players could agree to end the game in a draw. Neither player would have to walk away with a loss.

[mr. peasant]

But that situation is incredibly rare. How often do both players completely destroy each other's mineral lines and command buildings, without enough left to build a new one? There are two solutions to that. The first is to hide a single air unit in some corner of the map just in case, and the other is to make sure you can rebuild after the attack that your opponent just failed at.

The issue is equality between the races; i.e. if the situations were identically flipped between two races, the outcome should be the same.

[Dalarsco]

Not necessarily. Different races have different strengths and weaknesses. I mean, if I quickly rush a Zerg player and he gets his spawning pool up while I'm there, he can suddenly train a ton of 'lings and beat me. A Protoss player who gets rushed while just getting his Gateway up is much less likely to recover as easily. What matters more is whether the strength can be used to steal a win, which is the worry that is there is a Terran player somehow manages to wipe out his enemies ability to produce anything that can attack air, while his opponent removes his ability to attack anything.

[protoswarrior]

THIS is why noobonic is right...

[Maxa]

I'm against changing Lift-off, mostly because the it doesn't deserve changing for those few games where they force a draw. Should we change it so island expansions die if you can't reach them at the end? It would be just as frustrating for T if they only had marauders left, and an Extractor/Assimilator survived on an island expo.

I basically agree with this. It's fun to talk about, but we're getting worked up about a scenario which hardly ever happens (and which is better solved by instituting a draw-option, anyway). We shouldn't change a critical Terran mechanic for such a flimsy reason.

[protoswarrior]

Flimsy?

If I let that bloody SOB live, I'd have to work my way though his BS army of marauder tanks to make him beg for mercy again...

Annoying much?

[mr. peasant]

I basically agree with this. It's fun to talk about, but we're getting worked up about a scenario which hardly ever happens (and which is better solved by instituting a draw-option, anyway). We shouldn't change a critical Terran mechanic for such a flimsy reason.

I agree. The lift-off mechanic should not be changed. What ought to change are the victory conditions. For instance, not counting floating buildings as 'buildings'. After all, if you're in a situation where all your buildings are lifted off, meaning you have no depots, no turrets, no bunkers or even refineries, you're likely to be in a retreat. And a retreat, whether tactical or not, only happens when you've come up second best.

By using this method, you prevent these 'rare' lift-off abuses without impinging on regular play.