Zerg vs. Protoss help

[TheStigma]

I don't know why, but most Zergling rushes don't work, and when I try to tech up, a mass amount of Zealots and Stalkers invade my base.

How can I beat a Protoss player?

[DemolitionSquid]

I don't know why, but most Zergling rushes don't work, and when I try to tech up, a mass amount of Zealots and Stalkers invade my base.

How can I beat a Protoss player?

Honestly, I don't lose to Zerg much anymore. From a Protoss player I suggest:

1. Always have one more base than he does
2. Upgrade Burrow-move Roaches
3. Lots of Hydralisks
4. Use more Banelings

[GRUNT]

No offense Demo, but whenever you post a replay showing off a strat, you tend to say something like "admittedly, this Zerg player wasn't very good...", so if you only win against Zerg players who aren't particularly competent, then that doesn't really tell you whether or not the build you used is any good

However, Demo is right that you generally want to be ahead on bases to your Protoss opponent ^_^.


Zerg are a very reactive race. The other races have tons of ways to ruin your fast-expansion days, and it's up to you to find out what particular plan they are going to use, and react accordingly. As such, scouting is extremely important!

Here are general Zerg scouting 'phases'.

1) Scouting Drone. Depending on your build or the map, you will want to send this out at 10/10 supply, or later, like 14/18.

The first two non-Pylon buildings the Protoss builds are very important. If you see 2 Gateways, expect early Zealot pressure. If you see 1 Gateway and 1 Cybernetics Core, the Protoss is either teching, or going to go for a 4-warpgate Timing Attack. Usually, your Drone will not survive to find out anything more.


2) Your first 2 Zerglings. You need these little fellas to find out more of what's going on. If you see 1 Gateway and 1 Cybernetics Core, you still won't know if the Protoss is teching or going for Warpgates. Run your Zerglings up the ramp, then immediately run them away (there'll usually be a wall of some sort with a Zealot blocking the only point of entry into the Protoss base). The point is just to see how many units the Protoss is massing up. If you see a moderate number of troops, it is likely that a timing attack is in the works. If you see only a lone Zealot, it is much more likely that the Protoss is teching.


3) Sacrificial Overlord. I'm loathe to do this, but sometimes, saccing an Overlord to see what's going on can be useful.



The trick to Zerg is to try and build as many Drones as you can and building the minimum number of defences necessary to counter the Protoss attack. This varies from game to game, and depends on what you see with your scouting. If it looks like the Protoss is going for any sort of powerful ground attack at all, it doesn't hurt to put down at least one Spine Crawler.

If it looks like the Protoss is going for a tier 1.5 attack (Zealots/Stalkers/Sentries), Hydralisks are a good choice. Hydralisks are also good against Void Rays - just be sure to lay down those Creep Tumours so that your Hydras have an easier time catching the Vrays.

In the end though, a lot of it is just experience. It's the sort of thing you can only learn by playing games. With more time, you'll get the hang of it .

Also, you might want to consider playing some games as Protoss and trying to copy the builds that were used against you, since that'll give you a better understanding of its vulnerabilities and timings. :]

[DemolitionSquid]

No offense Demo, but whenever you post a replay showing off a strat, you tend to say something like "admittedly, this Zerg player wasn't very good...", so if you only win against Zerg players who aren't particularly competent, then that doesn't really tell you whether or not the build you used is any good

Maybe I should post more replays where I lose?
Except, as I said, I rarely lose to Zerg nowadays. My silver record is now 17-15, and only 3 of those losses are to Zerg.

[agentheart]

since you die to the same attack each time, theres probably something wrong with your build

[GRUNT]

Maybe I should post more replays where I lose?
Except, as I said, I rarely lose to Zerg nowadays. My silver record is now 17-15, and only 3 of those losses are to Zerg.

Assuming that 1/3 of your games are vs Z, that's only *about* 10 games vs Zerg, 3 of which are losses. To me, 10 games isn't really enough to say: "I rarely lose to Zerg nowadays" . I mean, I could be 5-0 vs Zerg and go: "I haven't lost to Zerg yet", but it's not as impressive as it sounds when I've only played 5 games .

[DemolitionSquid]

Assuming that 1/3 of your games are vs Z, that's only *about* 10 games vs Zerg, 3 of which are losses. To me, 10 games isn't really enough to say: "I rarely lose to Zerg nowadays" . I mean, I could be 5-0 vs Zerg and go: "I haven't lost to Zerg yet", but it's not as impressive as it sounds when I've only played 5 games .

Actually I'd say closer to 2/3 of my games are vs Zerg. I guess I just keep gettin lucky.

[Hoywolf]

I don't know why, but most Zergling rushes don't work, and when I try to tech up, a mass amount of Zealots and Stalkers invade my base.

How can I beat a Protoss player?

What do you mean by ling rush, can you post a replay? And maybe give more info?

Generally if you sent 6 lings and he has 2 zealots... you should not engage anyways. Try not to throw your units aways if you can help it, if you see that he has wall in with some zealots, wait for more units on your side, park outside his/her base. If your attack his min line and zealots come in, then at least you got some pressure on and your doing it right.

The next tip i can give you is when you get your spawning pool going, you should get a gas up as well, you need early gas to get speedling boost or for roaches depending on your situation. Gas is VERY important, you should not skip out on it even if your trying to rush. And same goes for a queen. you should be able to beat a lot/stalker with your speedling/roach army, and with just 1 hatch. sentries are a different story though...

Mass unit a bit of units, before you drop down a expansion, and use crawlers as d, have a queen made by your first hatch to walk to the new one, you should have the upper hand when it comes to D.

rushing normally doesnt work often, unless you like 6 pool or something even then its not a 100% win either... and dont ever rush to tech up that can cost you the game. You need to maybe throw a ling int he the base to see what is happening, 2 gate, means you need to make more units, 1 gate means you can tech up safely (while making units still).

Hope this helps.

[Sigel]

In lower leagues (silver and lower at least) a build I use is (not sure how well it'd work against gold or plat)
13 pool
14 extractor
15 ovy
2 pair zergling (for early lots)
roach warren when queen is halfway
19/26 I wait
then I build 7 roaches at once and send them

Depending what I plan to transition to I start second extractor before the roaches. It often leaves a protoss player crippled so it's easy to expand and go t2

[Dale]

I don't know why, but most Zergling rushes don't work, and when I try to tech up, a mass amount of Zealots and Stalkers invade my base.

How can I beat a Protoss player?

Send a few roaches his way until he starts making immortals, and then hit him with a muta-switch.

He won't know what hit him.