Patch 11 Notes

[n00bonicPlague]

@Noob all of the protoss air units have atack move, so why shouldn't the phoenix also have it ?
This change only makes phoenixes slightly bether vs mutalisk, but against anything else ( that has more than 4 range) there is no real difference, hardly OP as some people say, corupters and vikings kill them like they would be nothing.

I think you may have misunderstood what I am saying. In fact, it seems that a lot of people don't understand the way the Phoenix works now.

For a normal unit to attack another unit, it either has to see one within range while stopped, be holding position, be commanded to attack-move, or be commanded to attack a specific target. Most units have to fully stop to fire their first shot, but there are some units that will fire their first salvo just as they begin to decelerate (e.g. Vulture, Viking+Hold Position, etc.).

What the Phoenix has is BEYOND the standard attack function of normal units. It is best imagined as this: a unit whose movements you control but which has a mounted turret that operates independently of the unit's commands (unless it is told to attack a specific target). So you can be normal-moving — not attack-moving — your Phoenix, and if it passes any potential targets along its path, it will automatically attack them in such a way that you do not have to tell them to stop, hold position, attack-move, or attack-target at all and that it will continue moving towards its defined destination without slowing down, much less stopping. It has effectively gained magical strafing powers.

This . . . is . . . not . . . good.

This . . . is . . . bad.

No unit in the history of SC has EVER had the ability to do anything like this at this magnitude. The only unit that even came close was the Cobra, and it was removed because of its strafing abilities. With the Phoenix, you might as well let the mouse cursor act as an eraser that just sweeps enemies away with little to no effort. And don't fool yourselves into thinking that the game will suddenly be easier for casuals and casuals only. The reality is that casuals will actually die far more often than normal because of the ease of this bug. Hardcore and professional players will be laughing their asses off at how easy it is to steamroll air units. I promise you guys — YOU DO NOT WANT THE PHOENIX TO BE ABLE TO DO THIS.

Now what wouldn't be bad is if it gained the ability to fire it's first shot just as it started to decelerate, unlike other units which have to fully stop. The Vulture had this, and it turned out to be one of the best units in SC1 because of it. What I said was that I think the nature of the Vulture's attack was what they were looking for and not this insanely overpowered bug. If it doesn't get changed in the very near future, the devs have lost their mind.

I hope I've cleared things up.

[n00bonicPlague]

I encounter this as well, though Im running a mac. But for me, it completely locks up my system and i lose control of it. I can't force quit. I can't open the window, and i am forced to hard shut down… I have had to do this twice already. I hope it gets fixed. I might putting the game in a window so i still have control of everything else. Any Mac users tried this?

This is one of those moments where it feels good to be a windows user.

Task Manager FTW

[Perfecttear]

Noob i know exactly how the phoenix works, and i love it.
And it still demands some actualy skill to use them efectively, 4 phoenix vs 8 muta you still need to click like crazy, and constantly move for the next 2 minutes to win, so it's not that easy or micress as you said, it's quite intensive to use it efectively at all times.

It's a new kind of micro and it's fun.

Anyways , regardless of this new change the Phoenix is still only good/efective vs 3 units , the Mutalisk , Brodlord and the Banshee , and 2 of those can't even atack back
So hardly the game breaking unit as some people say!



And i realy hope they don't remove this from the Phoenix.

[flabortast]

No Noob, the cobra wasn't removed for its strafing abilities. It is your opinion that it's bad. It is not a FACT.

[Mgz]

well, it seems patch 11 didn't only bring balance and bug changes :P

whenever i try to close the game now, it freezes to the point where i've got to open task manager to manually close the program

never fear tho, this problem has been reported on the bnet forums and blizz is on the matter, i just decided to post this topic before others have

+1

have to restart computer like 4-5 times now

now I have to play from windows mode.

[TheRabidDeer]

It should be noted, that you still need pretty obscene micro to take full advantage of the phoenix. For most people, in order to do the moving attack you forfeit your ability to focus fire. Only the absolute best and those with obscene APM will be able to move + focus fire and really handle them.

So, yea... now that I have had time to think about it the phoenix change isnt so bad after all.

[pure.Wasted]

It should be noted, that you still need pretty obscene micro to take full advantage of the phoenix. For most people, in order to do the moving attack you forfeit your ability to focus fire. Only the absolute best and those with obscene APM will be able to move + focus fire and really handle them.

You don't "forfeit" anything, because the unit didn't have ANY of these characteristics to begin with. It's ONLY gained things.

A newbie Phoenix user vs. a pro Mutalisk user will probably still come out with the Mutalisk on top. But a newbie vs. a MODERATE? What they've built here is a newb friendly hard counter.

Too hard. And too newb friendly.

I'm completely fine with what this means for the Phoenix's DPS output. What I'm not fine with is the fact that this unit now takes next to zero micro to use very well -- at our level. Yes, you can put in the extra bit if you're a pro and raise it to Godly status, but that's fine.

For the moment we're concerned with casual play.

[Aldrius]

The problem with the new Phoenix thing, I find, is that it's much like the old Roach vs. Ling match-up.

Yes, lings CAN beat roaches, with good micro, maybe some upgrades or superior numbers.

But the sheer RATIO of roaches that beat lings is so outrageous it's hardly balanced.

I feel the same way about Phoenix vs. Muta now. Because really, one Phoenix can kill like 5 Mutalisks or something with even some basic micro.

And this doesn't help the Phoenix against the Viking at all.

[TheRabidDeer]

You don't "forfeit" anything, because the unit didn't have ANY of these characteristics to begin with. It's ONLY gained things.

A newbie Phoenix user vs. a pro Mutalisk user will probably still come out with the Mutalisk on top. But a newbie vs. a MODERATE? What they've built here is a newb friendly hard counter.

Too hard. And too newb friendly.

I'm completely fine with what this means for the Phoenix's DPS output. What I'm not fine with is the fact that this unit now takes next to zero micro to use very well -- at our level. Yes, you can put in the extra bit if you're a pro and raise it to Godly status, but that's fine.

For the moment we're concerned with casual play.

Have you tried it? With minimal micro (probably on par with what a newbie would be able to do) I came out roughly equal to standing focus fire micro. I dont have anything more than a computer to test against, but against a real player you cant exactly do what I did in the video earlier. They can stop chasing and bait the phoenix back, then hit it with another volley.

The only time 1 or 2 phoenix will beat 5+ muta is if the muta arent micro'd at all, literally. If the muta just hit stop, or right click to move to another location and wait for the phoenix to come back they can all hit it and kill it.

Meanwhile, every other air unit in the game still outranges it making it relatively close to the moving shot that was requested (since you will have to run in and focus fire to get the same desired effect).

[pure.Wasted]

Have you tried it? With minimal micro (probably on par with what a newbie would be able to do) I came out roughly equal to standing focus fire micro. I dont have anything more than a computer to test against, but against a real player you cant exactly do what I did in the video earlier. They can stop chasing and bait the phoenix back, then hit it with another volley.

Your micro in that video was subpar (not surprising, given the newness of the change, and not telling of your skill, but relevant to our interests). Most of the time you only had one Phoenix attacking the enemy.

The Phoenix has both range and speed over the Mutalisk. This is gonna be Hellion vs. Zerglings here. Shooting fish in a barrel.