Patch 11 Notes

[Dragoonx]

I really don't see the Phoenix as a hard counter to Vikings. Thats ridiculous.

[Lupino]

Yes, but not to this degree. Having such a hard counter to a particular unit that also has some more general use is a bit... crazy. And it's something I thought Blizzard was avoiding with the basic air units.

However, just from listening to people and watching replays I've come under the impression that A)Mutalisks were too good, and B)Protoss air sucked. I mean, you can still win with Mutas vs. Phoenix, but considering the latter is specifically meant to combat the former, it rightly should be much harder.

Besides, you still have Corruptors (greater range, greater damage, more armor) and Spore Crawlers (greater range, greater damage, building) if they get too annoying.

[Aldrius]

Besides, you still have Corruptors (greater range, greater damage, more armor) and Spore Crawlers (greater range, greater damage, building) if they get too annoying.

Corruptors can't even CATCH Phoenix.

The unit is going to have supreme air control now. It can completely outmaneuver corruptors and just GB Queens and Drones and kill Overlords like crazy.

Maybe , but if you micro Vikings just a little , and not just A move them, they should never lose to Phoenixes.

You can't really micro in a Phoenix vs. Viking fight. The Phoenix is too fast, and the Viking's range is too long.

I mean, you can still win with Mutas vs. Phoenix,

Not anymore.

[unentschieden]

Maybe , but if you micro Vikings just a little , and not just A move them, they should never lose to Phoenixes.

That is what used to happen. The Phoenixes advantage was supposed to be their speed, but the "stop to shoot" model negated it. It had high speed and short range for "drive-by" but was forced to "stop-by".

[Krikkitone]

Well perhaps they lower its dps v. light if it counters mutas too hard.

Perhaps corruption could slow a unit as well as increase damage.

[n00bonicPlague]

I'm aware that the Phoenix still takes an enormous amount of micro, but the problem is that you have to use that micro to just get it to stop rather than get it to do stuff. Just think of chess. Instead of deciding where you want the stationary pieces to go and then moving them, it's like all of the pieces are just bouncing around the board uncontrollably and you have to think quickly to make each one stop where you want it to. It's like . . . "anti-micro" or something. Like Gifted said in another thread, unit control is important. If you can't reasonably control your own units, then how are you supposed to do anything? I don't know which is worse: not playing Protoss and having to put up with the ridiculous amount of power, or playing Protoss and being unable to control your own unit! This isn't good for anyone, Protoss or otherwise.

[mr. peasant]

I'm aware that the Phoenix still takes an enormous amount of micro, but the problem is that you have to use that micro to just get it to stop rather than get it to do stuff. Just think of chess. Instead of deciding where you want the stationary pieces to go and then moving them, it's like all of the pieces are just bouncing around the board uncontrollably and you have to think quickly to make each one stop where you want it to. It's like . . . "anti-micro" or something. Like Gifted said in another thread, unit control is important. If you can't reasonably control your own units, then how are you supposed to do anything? I don't know which is worse: not playing Protoss and having to put up with the ridiculous amount of power, or playing Protoss and being unable to control your own unit! This isn't good for anyone, Protoss or otherwise.

So, you're saying that the Phoenix is powerful for its cost but in order to maximise its potential, it requires a decent amount of manual effort? Doesn't that sound like it's somewhat balanced?

[Dragoonx]

Corruptors can't even CATCH Phoenix.

The unit is going to have supreme air control now. It can completely outmaneuver corruptors and just GB Queens and Drones and kill Overlords like crazy.



You can't really micro in a Phoenix vs. Viking fight. The Phoenix is too fast, and the Viking's range is too long.



Not anymore.

The thing about Corrupters and Vikings is, the longer range is all it needs. The Protoss player can't "micro" the Phoenix against those because chances are, he'll probably take greater damage just getting into range to shoot.

[TheEconomist]

Just did a tournament match with Phoenixes. God those things are imbalanced. I like the idea of attack and move but at least make it so the person has to click A or something. Auto-attacking with only move clicking is so hard to counter.

BLIZZARD FIX THIS NOW!!!

[TheRabidDeer]

I'm aware that the Phoenix still takes an enormous amount of micro, but the problem is that you have to use that micro to just get it to stop rather than get it to do stuff. Just think of chess. Instead of deciding where you want the stationary pieces to go and then moving them, it's like all of the pieces are just bouncing around the board uncontrollably and you have to think quickly to make each one stop where you want it to. It's like . . . "anti-micro" or something. Like Gifted said in another thread, unit control is important. If you can't reasonably control your own units, then how are you supposed to do anything? I don't know which is worse: not playing Protoss and having to put up with the ridiculous amount of power, or playing Protoss and being unable to control your own unit! This isn't good for anyone, Protoss or otherwise.

If you attack-move like you used to, then it doesnt require additional micro to do what you want it to. It will act (almost) exactly as it used to in that it will run up to range and start attacking and glide to a stop.