ZvP

[moosh]

This used to be my best matchup. But now it's near impossible. They usually 1 gate and turtle up, preventing any zergling harass, and from there i'm not too sure what to do. Stalkers handle mutalisks a lot better now too. And on maps like desert oasis where expansions are relatively hard to defend. I find that all they have to do is mass stalkers and I lose. Any ideas?

[Donat]

2gate zealot push.. zerglings melt against zealots. I've found if you can make it to phenoixes, you can be VERY annoying by sniping overlords, picking up queens and killing them, even drones (plus they arn't too bad against muta either. Mainly what I see any protoss doing these days is staying mass zealot with a few stalkers and immortals for tanks.

[moosh]

I want to know how to win as zerg... I always see a stalker heavy army and they are TOUGH! Zerglings are SUPPOSED to counter them but stalkers can hide behind things or clump up in a fashion that makes it real hard for zerglings to get the surround.

[Donat]

Oh, haha. my mistake. zerg. Um. Generally if you out expand a protoss you can easily defeat them. (or anyone)

Try doing a 13pool into 14 hatch (or some variation there of) and see how much better you eco becomes as you are able to summon the swarm.

Zerglings + roaches means stalkers shoot the zerglings while the roaches range, same with muta-ling. hydras also in mass can be effective (longer range, don't take extra dmg from stalkers) ect ect.

[Aerith]

Actually a fast expansion is the last thing I'd suggest if you're having problems.

See when a zerg fast expands he opens up alot of options for the enemy player. Z has to saturate his minerals and gas with drones. And drones come from larva which are also used to make army units. I'd say that the main focus of being a zerg player is knowing when to make drones or army units with your larva.

Anyway you should stick with 1 base right now and leave toss thinking. Try a 2 hatch hydra if you're really out of ideas.

[Todie]

Actually a fast expansion is the last thing I'd suggest if you're having problems.

See when a zerg fast expands he opens up alot of options for the enemy player. Z has to saturate his minerals and gas with drones. And drones come from larva which are also used to make army units. I'd say that the main focus of being a zerg player is knowing when to make drones or army units with your larva.

Anyway you should stick with 1 base right now and leave toss thinking. Try a 2 hatch hydra if you're really out of ideas.

strongly disagree. T and P are the ones that "have to" saturate new bases asap. a new hatchery is good for the larva and the creep it provides to defend that ground - whether youre gonna heavily saturate it quite soon or much later is another question!


... I normally do a 14-15 pool at which point i send my drone scout. if i spot a 2gate (usually means late gas) ill make some ling / roach out of one base before expanding. if he's teching, expand asap.

from there i go Lair, and if i dont have one already, build roach or baneling nest on the way to lair.. at lair, i generally go for hydra but dont want to count too heavily on getting enough hydra before im pushed: the timing of the typical P-push is what prevents me from going muta, and to switch to muta later rarely feels worthwhile, other than vs Colossi, which i rater make corrupters against.

take care not to get caught out of position and pwnt by clever forcefield uses - this is why you want hydras; long enough range not to get blocked out of combat by FF so easily (+ some roach/ling/bling to cover from zealots)

... atypically early warpgate-pushes with forward pylon(s) have been giving me the most trouble. its a tense matchup, gotta play and learn to get better: for me a lot of intuition goes into deciding & timing everything right & adapting it to circumstances; how much drones do i dare get? how fast can i tech? when should i take a 3:rd base? when to attack?


it feels like a dynamic matchup, i like my chances in it. though im looking for timings and indicators of when its better to go muta like i used to.

[FlowerBed]

So what would be a good zerg counter to a Stalker/Immortal army? I've lost my last two games vs toss because they went straight for that kind of army.

[Todie]

Hydras, hdyra+ling, roach/ling muta/ling can all work depending on the timing :P

the trick is to see the enemy build and be able to estimate when the push is liekly to happen, as well as see when he actualy moves out, so that you know how long you can power econ + how far youre lieky to reach in tech (wil you get to hydaras in time? is it safe to go right for lair & hdyras vs the build your scouting?)

.. finally, if you missed the goal a bit in terms of estimation, dont fight a losing attle: eitehr pull the drones of the nat & try to recover from main, or send in enough drones to swing the fight in your favour (at first contact, not when youve already lost a chunk of your army!)

[Hoywolf]

You just need to have MORE, i would throw some lings into his base or seer with changling so watch his WGs, it will depend how many he has, 3-5 means that you need to have more hatcherys, you should always have +1 more mining bases than the protoss. And have an extra hatchery at your main base as well.

A good combination of roach/hydra should do the trick, if he has a few senties, then cracklings can help block movement and DPS. I can generally overpower a protoss army, dont forge to upgrade as well, the roach and hydra share the same upgrade