4th Faction possible?

[Hamshank]

Can the editor be data mined to find Xel Naga?
I have no experience with this stuff j/w.

[Triceron]

If I may be so bold, I think you're going through the very thing Jabber Wookie was actually advising against -- the Barracks phenomenon.

The Barracks phenomenon is this idea that every race must build a Barracks and from this Barracks they get their Footmen, or their Archers, or whatever it is their unit is called.

I don't exactly understand how you got this out of any of the words I was quoted from, but okay, if you say so.

My reasonings are not solely based on game mechanics. It's themes, and the underlying distinctions that make each race unique.

The Terrans, Zerg and Protoss are recreations of the most popular science fiction elements. They fit harmoniously with one another, and adding a 4th faction breaks this diversity between the races. Making units from a barracks has nothing to do with this.

If you added another playable race in Aliens vs Predator, it just wouldn't be the same. You can make it more interesting by adding more types of Aliens, more types of Predators, more guns for Colonial Marines, but you don't add another race. The concept is interesting enough without requiring a 4th faction.

If the question is CAN Blizzard do it; the answer is yes. They've proven with Warcraft that anything is possible; like making Elves part of the Horde and making blue skinned aliens a playable character race. They could just as easily make Chaos Space Orcs a 4th race in SC3.

My point is that just because it can happen doesn't mean it should. I don't like the idea of adding Hybrids or Xel'naga or anything as a 4th faction when there is still plenty of room to play with in the existing 3 factions. The Terran, Zerg and Protoss are each designed in a way where they can expand their potential in any direction that making a 4th faction is moot.

You want that Leech idea? Why not incorporate it into the Zerg as a new unit? It sounds very Zerg already, and it's not a stretch to simply have it part of the Zerg race. Likewise, any kind of Robotic ideas for a 4th race could be made by Terrans. Any kind of Xel'Naga relics could be utilized by the Protoss as re-appropriated technology. I would rather see advancements come from the 3 rather than be packaged as a 4th.

[pure.Wasted]

If you added another playable race in Aliens vs Predator, it just wouldn't be the same. You can make it more interesting by adding more types of Aliens, more types of Predators, more guns for Colonial Marines, but you don't add another race. The concept is interesting enough without requiring a 4th faction.

But StarCraft is not called Zerg vs. Protoss. It's called StarCraft. We already know that other "races" exist, and will continue to appear in the single player, so it's not a matter of themes unless we literally cannot come up with anything other than "industrious humans, wise, psychic beings, and ravenous nightmarish hordes." There are plenty more Sci-fi archetypes to draw from and while these three, as you pointed out, are fairly standard by now, they are far from alone.

Furthermore, if we go back to the UED example, that isn't even adding a different race. It IS in the sense that there would be a new playable faction, but that's all it is -- a sub-faction of humans, with a completely different tech tree and completely different racial mechanics at work.

The Terran, Zerg and Protoss are each designed in a way where they can expand their potential in any direction that making a 4th faction is moot.

There is, however, the issue of over-complication. Let's say for the sake of argument that a race that has tons and tons of buildings would be super interesting for gameplay. That sounds pretty Zergy, right? But so do Leeches, so does Infestation, so do more interesting Burrow mechanics, and more interesting Creep mechanics, and more interesting Queen mechanics, and so on and so forth. There's only so many things we can tack on to a single race before it loses its tightness and becomes a shapeless blob.

I would rather see advancements come from the 3 rather than be packaged as a 4th.

I don't disagree with this. The problem is that by focusing only on the three races we know, I'm not sure we're moving ahead quickly enough. When WC3 came out spellcasters were ludicrously overpowered so Blizzard was forced to invent a whole new fun class of unit, the anti-caster, for the expansion. New things are contagious that way: one spawns another. If we're only sticking with 3 races every game, it's easy to think that adding Warp-In is enough. But it's not, and it's only once you invent a crazy 4th race, with completely crazy new ideas -- tier 1 siege units, tier 1 flying units, units that cannot be killed, buildings that are interchangeable with units, a race without a single unit, just to name a few -- that Blizz will really have to reevaluate the old races and breathe new life into them.

A 4th race isn't the ONLY way to achieve this; anything that really shakes things up would do it. But I think it might be the easiest. It would naturally, inevitably point the design team toward new things that can be added to the older races... things that they wouldn't have thought of had they just been working off the tried-and-true Terran/Protoss/Zerg for the umpteenth time in a row.

[Triceron]

Adding a 4th faction to 'shake things up' is not good enough. If they really wanted to make things interesting and there is something lacking of interest in the existing 3 races, then they need to address that first. If 3 races is 'getting tiresome' and adding a 4th makes it more fun, then we're on the path of what Dawn of War did. There's 9 playable races in Dawn of War with all expansions, each with interesting play mechanics. More = better, right?

As for the Frozen Throne example; TFT gameplay is almost completely changed from RoC. They didn't just add new units and call it a day. It wasn't simply minor tweaks here and there. It was as drastic as Brood War was to Vanilla SC; if not moreso. The entire balance and the way each race was played was completely changed with TFT. The Hard-counter system was revamped and units were given better stats and abilities to do this (Melee -> Ranged/Anticaster -> Air/Casters). Unit caps were raised, unit prices lowered, neutral heroes added and much more. The core game was much more refined; and the changes are akin to exactly what you mentioned with the addition of a new race.

In short, it can be accomplished without adding a 4th faction, therefore much of the argument is moot. If you're looking for interesting mechanics for some magical 4th race that hasn't even been designed, then I can't really argue that other than saying it's wishful hoping. I can't debate a grass-is-greener argument if that's what you believe.

I simply don't believe this game needs a 4th faction because Starcraft's identity is already defined by the current 3. It isn't a matter of whether it can be done or not. It's a matter of it continuing to be Starcraft or not.

[Raisk]

I've got an idea for a fourth race... We could call them Reavers...

Firefly eh? Good show, canceled before it's time.

On topic: I don't know if any of you played Master of Orion III, but that game had all kinds of species not yet explored in the SC universe. Gaseous beings that lived on gas giants, purely robotic species, and saurians to name a few.

However the current races do kind of overlap in one way or another with everything sci-fi, being that the three races are basically just a culmination of most if not all science fiction alien/human iterations that I can think of.

I'm sure the SC universe could fit another race, but I don't think just cause something can be done it should be done. Three races is quite enough for me at least.

[Comet]

More likely to be some type of zel naga being if there were to be another race. Adding a race that isnt in any of the lore or is never mentioned in the games would be terrible.

[horror]

That's true. There's only a certain amount of stuff you can tack on to any one race before it becomes either OP, crazy to use or doesn't really have an identity of its own. It would take a lot of brainstorming to come up with something that creates its own identity without stealing that of another.
But, that being said, the general consensus of the Terran tech is something less flexible than that of the Zerg, yet more flexible than that of the Protoss. So there are characteristics that are linear as opposed to being totally different in each.

I've been toying a 4th race idea around in my head for a while. The idea is that it starts off as mech and ends in biological. Basically a computer virus teching to flesh.
There would be 2 branches of tech at tier 2. One could either go fauna tech or flora tech. Although, you couldn't win a match with just one branch of tech alone, but have to integrate the two together.
There are a number of scenarios in this case where units could be created, giving the race its own character. I was almost going to write down these ideas onto paper...

[Jabber Wookie]

On topic: I don't know if any of you played Master of Orion III, but that game had all kinds of species not yet explored in the SC universe. Gaseous beings that lived on gas giants, purely robotic species, and saurians to name a few.

Mass Effect is also a good example of how many different species can exist in a Sci-fi universe. I agree that regardless of how unique they may seem, they're going to somewhat overlap with the three ultimate archetypical races SC has created. But, a purely robotic race (like the Geth or the Reapers from ME) would be a pretty cool idea. But I agree that SC doesn't need another race.

As Triceron said, any good idea they come up with should just be integrated into one of the already existing races, as opposed to creating a new race merely to serve as an outlet for these ideas. But, if they actually had a great concept for a new race and wouldn't merely be dumping old ideas into it, I'd be curious to see what it might be like... Cannibilistic rapists FTW!

[don]

I know what you guys are thinking. (Ahh another guy with a 4th race conspericy theory). But its not.

This thread is about if a 4th race would be possible.

I mean we have the psychic alien protoss, the robotic human terran, and the mutated swarming insects.

Tell me how you could incorperate a race without having it too much like the other races

If its Xel'Naga/hybrid: I would base them on the Archon. Everything in the race would be energy/psi based. Later technology allows them to convert psi directly into matter/robotics/biology. Lower tier units and buildings are all energy based. Most higher tier units are biological with armor/robotics.

1. Harvesters would be mini-archons, 5HP + Shields. Produced by an energy based CC.

2. Supply mechanic: 2 Harvesters would merge into a structure that provides supply.

3. Building Mechanic: 1 harvester must combine with a supply structure to convert to tech/command center buildings.

4. Harvesters ~ larva: Once tech buildings unlock a morph, harvesters can transform into the attack/support units.

5. Harvesters can continue to move while morphing.

6. Some lower tier morphs still allow the harvester to harvest resources while morphing.

7. Secondary morphs also still allow some morphing units to still move/attack while morphing.

8. Some unit abilities are only available if the unit is in the process of morphing. Example: Harvesters gain attack and armor bonus while morphing into a certain tier 2 unit. This takes long (say 6mins), so for the duration of the morph, the unit is a tier 1 melee unit, at the end of the morph its a GTA specialist.

9. Macro mechanics would revolve around unit morphs and building morph boosts and cancelling morphs to gain back workers/units after using them in combat.

[InpuBot]

ok, astroid men, that draw on the power of planets.