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Thread: carriers+zealots w/charge

  1. #21

    Default Re: carriers+zealots w/charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    Marauders will make short work of Ultralisk

    I don’t see the how Ultralisks are more effective than other units, (maybe to survive a nuclear strike?).
    No,they won't...That is if you have fungal growth and ultra speed....marauders are dead meat...

    And for surviving a nuclear strike,Ultras are the only units capable of withstanding 2 direct nuclear strikes...(which of course is lore ridiclious )

  2. #22

    Default Re: carriers+zealots w/charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    Marauders will make short work of Ultralisks.
    - Zergling takes 10* damage
    - Ultralisk takes 20** damage

    * 10+3 damage + 10+3 damage (against armored) = 26 damage (-6 from max armored Ultra) = 20 damage
    ** 10+3 damage + 0 damage (no bonus against biological) = 13 damage (-3 from max armored Zergling) = 10 damage

    Again, my point:



    The only useful targets for Ultralisks in a M&M&M + Tank ball are the units I mentioned. Add in the fact that Roaches are stronger against Marines (nearly 2x the DPS/cost, more HP/cost), then the only unit that the Ultralisk tries to counter is the tank.

    For countering tanks, Brood Lords are much better (and they're the same tech as Ultralisks). Their spawned broodlings will often be shot by tanks (killing free units on your side and massively damaging/killing the enemy's M&M ball).

    I donít see the how Ultralisks are more effective than other units, (maybe to survive a nuclear strike?).
    The ultra's soak huge amounts of damage both from tanks (which also means lings dont get raped) marauders and marines. Stimmed marines in an MMM ball make short work of lings alone, but do paltry damage to ultras.

    I am unsure of if ultras or roaches would be better in that situation since a roaches usefulness declines greatly in higher unit counts thanks to their short range (and they are still countered by marauders). Perhaps another benefit would be that you dont have to use so many larvae on ultra's for the same tanking ability that a roach has, so you can get more of the other units in a shorter period of time (if your economy can support it).

  3. #23
    DesertRose's Avatar Junior Member
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    Default Re: carriers+zealots w/charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    For 10,000 resources you can get:
    - 20 Ultralisk: 12,000 HP; 360 Damage
    - 400 Zergling: 14,000 HP; 2,000 Damage (with 23-73% faster attacks it does 6.8-9.6x more damage)
    - 100 Roach: 14,500 HP; 1,600 Damage (even with the slow attack it does 93% more DPS than Ultralisks)
    You cannot calculate the damage that easily because lower HP units will die quicker and therefor cannot attack as long; e.g. you only need to deal 35 damage to the Zerglings to reduce thier damage by 1/400, but you need to deal 600 damage to the Ultralisks to reduce their damage by 1/20.

  4. #24

    Default Re: carriers+zealots w/charge

    Quote Originally Posted by protoswarrior View Post
    Also, I no longer watch livestreams, and I am not Platinum level. I cannot pretend to know what really happens on a daily basis at that level of play, but in Gold currently, Ultras, if used correctly, are a really good and strong unit. It's like a ground-based Thor for Zerg.
    They're absolutely nothing like The Thor.

    No range, no special ability, no ballistic firepower. Just a larger well of HP that get torn apart by Immortals and Marauders and ranged units.

    They pretty much require their armor upgrade to be at all usable. And Roaches are just more efficient in general besides the AoE thing. They still don't do very well against Marauders, though.

    And Corruptors are total niche units, they're not even good for ATA. They kill massive things and that's about it. They beat Phoenix, but only just barely. I guess they have a special ability, but I still think it's totally out of place on that unit.


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  5. #25

    Default Re: carriers+zealots w/charge

    Or if im a toss with carriers...i would tell my carriers to kill the damn corruptors making them costly to kill at the least.

    I agree on Ultra's - they are useful against the mass units like MMM and whatnot, but if your opponent has an immortal or something...be scared be very scared. Sentry/Stalker also are pretty effective against corruptors/broodlords, and if you have a collosus itll kill those broodlings pretty fast

  6. #26

    Default Re: carriers+zealots w/charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
    They're absolutely nothing like The Thor.

    No range, no special ability, no ballistic firepower. Just a larger well of HP that get torn apart by Immortals and Marauders and ranged units.

    They pretty much require their armor upgrade to be at all usable. And Roaches are just more efficient in general besides the AoE thing. They still don't do very well against Marauders, though.

    And Corruptors are total niche units, they're not even good for ATA. They kill massive things and that's about it. They beat Phoenix, but only just barely. I guess they have a special ability, but I still think it's totally out of place on that unit.
    This ---v


    Quote Originally Posted by TheRabidDeer View Post
    The ultra's soak huge amounts of damage both from tanks (which also means lings dont get raped) marauders and marines. Stimmed marines in an MMM ball make short work of lings alone, but do paltry damage to ultras.

    I am unsure of if ultras or roaches would be better in that situation since a roaches usefulness declines greatly in higher unit counts thanks to their short range (and they are still countered by marauders). Perhaps another benefit would be that you dont have to use so many larvae on ultra's for the same tanking ability that a roach has, so you can get more of the other units in a shorter period of time (if your economy can support it).
    Ultras are not a be-all end-all unit, just like in BW. It can BECOME that unit, but only with enough parallel support. It can take a lot of punishment, but your parallel units are the ones that do the real damage.

    You have to choose your target-tech well. You simply don't tech to ultras if the resultant army is very vulnerable to massive damage since you cannot afford NOR support the parallel cracklings or mass hydralisk or any other units.


    WRT to corruptors, they are indeed a niche unit. I still think they are very strong anti-air units. When you go corruptors in an air force, you better have some kind of ground support or Mutalisk...

    On the other hand, the corruption ability is TOTALLY out of place for this unit. I completely agree with you there.

  7. #27

    Default Re: carriers+zealots w/charge

    Quote Originally Posted by protoswarrior View Post
    WRT to corruptors, they are indeed a niche unit. I still think they are very strong anti-air units.
    They don't beat Void Rays, Vikings, or even Banshees and they BARELY beat Phoenix. Banshees can just run away and it takes them forever to kill them. Phoenix too can just run away really.

    They're probably the worst ATA unit in the game. Though obviously they can kill colossi and capital air fairly well.


    The Mother of all Queens!

    Thanks to Dynamik- for the signature!

  8. #28

    Default Re: carriers+zealots w/charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
    They don't beat Void Rays, Vikings, or even Banshees and they BARELY beat Phoenix. Banshees can just run away and it takes them forever to kill them. Phoenix too can just run away really.

    They're probably the worst ATA unit in the game. Though obviously they can kill colossi and capital air fairly well.
    I wouldnt really say they "barely" beat phoenix, it has 63 of its 200 life left in a 1v1. I would also much rather the ability to transform my phoenix into extremely kick ass air to ground units instead of grav beam

  9. #29

    Default Re: carriers+zealots w/charge

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRabidDeer View Post
    I wouldnt really say they "barely" beat phoenix, it has 63 of its 200 life left in a 1v1. I would also much rather the ability to transform my phoenix into extremely kick ass air to ground units instead of grav beam
    Brood Lord transformation does not count as an ability of the Corruptor. You're paying for the tech and production costs again.

    Brood Lords are the only really worthwhile thing about the Corruptor, and it doesn't even really count.


    The Mother of all Queens!

    Thanks to Dynamik- for the signature!

  10. #30

    Default Re: carriers+zealots w/charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
    Brood Lord transformation does not count as an ability of the Corruptor. You're paying for the tech and production costs again.

    Brood Lords are the only really worthwhile thing about the Corruptor, and it doesn't even really count.
    Yes, I know you have to pay for it (seriously, I am not retarded). But, brood lords are entirely worth the upgrade cost and much better (imo) than the horrible grav beam option that blizz has to make phoenix "useful" beyond ATA.

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