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Thread: carriers+zealots w/charge

  1. #31

    Default Re: carriers+zealots w/charge

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRabidDeer View Post
    Yes, I know you have to pay for it (seriously, I am not retarded). But, brood lords are entirely worth the upgrade cost and much better (imo) than the horrible grav beam option that blizz has to make phoenix "useful" beyond ATA.
    A) Graviton Beam is awesome. It doesn't make the Phoenix into an ATG unit, but it's damn useful. (And Protoss have the Void Ray and Carrier, why would they need 3 ATG units?)

    B) Brood Lords cost minerals, gas and SUPPLY, it's like saying larvae are the best units in the game because they can turn into Hydralisks OR Roaches! The Corruptor in itself is not good, the option to become something better (for the cost of any other unit) does not make them good.


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  2. #32

    Default Re: carriers+zealots w/charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
    A) Graviton Beam is awesome. It doesn't make the Phoenix into an ATG unit, but it's damn useful. (And Protoss have the Void Ray and Carrier, why would they need 3 ATG units?)

    B) Brood Lords cost minerals, gas and SUPPLY, it's like saying larvae are the best units in the game because they can turn into Hydralisks OR Roaches! The Corruptor in itself is not good, the option to become something better (for the cost of any other unit) does not make them good.
    A) Graviton beam is useful, but I would much rather do my overlord hunting/anti air work then switch it into a significantly more useful unit. Also, T has 3 "ATG" units (if you count the viking as an air to ground since it can be an air unit) + air caster. Dont mean to compare, just sayin.

    B) I dont even know how to respond to this kind of stupidity. Its not about their option to become something better its about their ability to become something truly amazing after doing their job against air units. Also, I dont see why you think corruptor is bad... it loses to 2 air units, the viking and the voidray. Every other air unit it will beat at cost by a large margin

  3. #33

    Default Re: carriers+zealots w/charge

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRabidDeer View Post
    B) I dont even know how to respond to this kind of stupidity.
    Hostile much? Seriously.

    Its not about their option to become something better its about their ability to become something truly amazing after doing their job against air units.
    It does matter, because BECOMING something, isn't the unit being good. It's the unit being an okay stepping stone to something that actually is good. At least the Mutalisk would give it some mobility if it mutated from it, and the Mutalisk actually is a good unit on it's own.

    Also, I dont see why you think corruptor is bad... it loses to 2 air units, the viking and the voidray. Every other air unit it will beat at cost by a large margin
    It's SLOW. It doesn't matter what it beats. It hardly beats Phoenix (it finishes the fight with 25% HP), but that's beside the point. It can't catch any of these units. It gives you a tiny bit of aerial denial, but gets completely outmaneuvered by anything else. And it does it's damage very slowly as well. It's good for killing Colossi and Capital Ships and that's it. In every other instance I'd rather have Mutalisks or Hydralisks.

    Also the Viking and Void Ray are probably the second and third most used aerial combat units, so losing to them isn't really anything to disregard for what's supposed to be an air superiority fighter.


    The Mother of all Queens!

    Thanks to Dynamik- for the signature!

  4. #34

    Default Re: carriers+zealots w/charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
    Hostile much? Seriously.
    Not at all actually. I dont see why you would think that is hostile o.O

    It does matter, because BECOMING something, isn't the unit being good. It's the unit being an okay stepping stone to something that actually is good. At least the Mutalisk would give it some mobility if it mutated from it, and the Mutalisk actually is a good unit on it's own.
    The mutalisk is the best air unit in the game. And BECOMING something that is good is better than having something that is... not so good and has a sparingly useful ability if the opponent uses no base defense.


    It's SLOW. It doesn't matter what it beats. It hardly beats Phoenix (it finishes the fight with 25% HP), but that's beside the point. It can't catch any of these units. It gives you a tiny bit of aerial denial, but gets completely outmaneuvered by anything else. And it does it's damage very slowly as well. It's good for killing Colossi and Capital Ships and that's it. In every other instance I'd rather have Mutalisks or Hydralisks.
    25% is not hardly beating a phoenix, 63 of 200hp in a 1v1 is an ENORMOUS victory (especially against a phoenix, thats 7 or 8 more shots til it dies). To illustrate, 4 corruptor vs 4 phoenix without micro means you lose 1 corruptor and the rest are near 50%. Hell, 10 micro'd phoenix vs 10 corruptor without micro leaves you with 4 corruptors up

    Also the Viking and Void Ray are probably the second and third most used aerial combat units, so losing to them isn't really anything to disregard for what's supposed to be an air superiority fighter.
    Void ray is almost never seen outside of an early game rush, you see phoenix more than them easily. Viking is used more often though, yes... but really that victory margin in that fight is 1 hit. Micro would win the battle. Corruptor is probably the best ATA fighter in the game (viking is probably slightly better just because it can hit ground without an upgrade, and is a bit faster) and it can turn into the best ATG unit in the game

  5. #35

    Default Re: carriers+zealots w/charge

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRabidDeer View Post
    Not at all actually. I dont see why you would think that is hostile o.O
    Er... you're calling me stupid and wondering how I could find that hostile?

    The mutalisk is the best air unit in the game.
    Debatable, but okay.

    And BECOMING something that is good is better than having something that is... not so good and has a sparingly useful ability if the opponent uses no base defense.
    Huh? Becoming a different unit for a mineral/gas/supply cost and having an ability are two completely different things.

    To illustrate, 4 corruptor vs 4 phoenix without micro means you lose 1 corruptor and the rest are near 50%. Hell, 10 micro'd phoenix vs 10 corruptor without micro leaves you with 4 corruptors up
    And one more Phoenix is going to completely throw off the fight. Or hell, a single Void Ray will just swoop in and clean that up without breaking a sweat. I know that's not cost-efficient, but it's not THAT decisive a victory.

    Viking is used more often though, yes... but really that victory margin in that fight is 1 hit.
    1 hit that the Viking gets for free because the Corruptor is slow and the Viking has impossibly long range.

    Micro would win the battle
    ...how? The Corruptor can't even move and the Viking has 3 more range than it and moves faster. How on earth are you going to MICRO in that battle?

    Corruptor is probably the best ATA fighter in the game
    Ugh... I would seriously disagree with that very, very strongly. Again, it can't actually KILL anything because it can't CATCH anything, and it does like no damage. (12 damage and a very sluggish attack rate.)

    It's not mobile, it's not that powerful, and it doesn't kill stuff that quickly. It just has crazy survivability and it can't really do anything with that.
    Last edited by Aldrius; 05-01-2010 at 04:56 AM.


    The Mother of all Queens!

    Thanks to Dynamik- for the signature!

  6. #36

    Default Re: carriers+zealots w/charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
    Er... you're calling me stupid and wondering how I could find that hostile?
    I didnt call you stupid, I called the logic involved in the statement was stupid.



    Debatable, but okay.
    Hardly debatable, it is the most mobile air unit and it can hit ground forces. Viking and phoenix may beat them, but both are more difficult to get and if they get too many you can punish them by just tech switching.

    Huh? Becoming a different unit for a mineral/gas/supply cost and having an ability are two completely different things.
    The ability to transform is not specifically calling it an ability. The problem here is clarity in wording. I said I would rather the phoenix had the ability to transform, ability here is also interchangeable with the OPTION to transform. Perhaps this better clarifies my position?



    And one more Phoenix is going to completely throw off the fight. Or hell, a single Void Ray will just swoop in and clean that up without breaking a sweat. I know that's not cost-efficient, but it's not THAT decisive a victory.
    That still depends on micro. If both dont micro, then 4v5 the phoenix win. If the corruptor micro's but phoenix doesnt then the corruptor's win with 2 alive and each at about 100hp. I imagine if both micro it would be very close 4v5.



    1 hit that the Viking gets for free because the Corruptor is slow and the Viking has impossibly long range.
    Yes, the viking is a pretty crazy good unit that both protoss and zerg would love to have.

    ...how? The Corruptor can't even move and the Viking has 3 more range than it and moves faster. How on earth are you going to MICRO in that battle?
    I really doubt in any given situation you are going to be using just corruptor vs viking, since any ground army at all would beat you. He could simply switch to assault mode and kill your base. In a real situation in which you have comparable armies hes going to likely want to kill the air units you have (probably either muta or brood lords) and thus your corruptors will be hitting them without them running away.


    Ugh... I would seriously disagree with that very, very strongly. Again, it can't actually KILL anything because it can't CATCH anything, and it does like no damage. (12 damage and SLOW... against 30-ish damage and average on the Viking)

    It's not mobile, it's not that powerful, and it doesn't kill stuff that quickly.
    Then you have the phoenix, which is quick but has no use for the speed and is weak and can rarely be used to great success. I admit the viking is probably better in that very part of the quote, but you nicely omit this part.

    In ANY case, it is way better than the phoenix, which is my original argument. Seriously, the phoenix beats nothing but mutalisk and its not even great at that since its difficult to get a high number of phoenix and not be overrun by a ground army, meanwhile the corruptor beats everything but viking and void ray. Then on top of that, the phoenix has only a semi-useful ability while the corruptor CAN change into an amazing unit.

  7. #37

    Default Re: carriers+zealots w/charge

    For the record - Corruptors have the same speed as vikings,and actually shoot 10% faster...But the reason they look 'slower' is because they have slow acceleration Sourse : Sc2armory

  8. #38

    Default Re: carriers+zealots w/charge

    Quote Originally Posted by arthas View Post
    For the record - Corruptors have the same speed as vikings,and actually shoot 10% faster...But the reason they look 'slower' is because they have slow acceleration Sourse : Sc2armory
    This piqued my interested a bit so I decided to look in the editor

    Corruptor and viking have the same movement speed and acceleration. And the corruptor actually attacks SLIGHTLY faster
    1.9 seconds between each attack for a corruptor
    2 seconds for the viking

    Both have a 2.75 movement speed and a 2.625 acceleration (the ground version of the viking has a significantly higher acceleration though, since it is a ground unit)

    It is 9 range vs 6 range however.

  9. #39

    Default Re: carriers+zealots w/charge

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRabidDeer View Post
    This piqued my interested a bit so I decided to look in the editor

    Corruptor and viking have the same movement speed and acceleration. And the corruptor actually attacks SLIGHTLY faster
    1.9 seconds between each attack for a corruptor
    2 seconds for the viking

    Both have a 2.75 movement speed and a 2.625 acceleration (the ground version of the viking has a significantly higher acceleration though, since it is a ground unit)

    It is 9 range vs 6 range however.
    Yep so i guess the sc2armory.com has some accurate things in it....

  10. #40

    Default Re: carriers+zealots w/charge

    ? its inaccurate. same acceleration, and 5% faster attack, not 10%


    this thread has gotten seriously derailed, but on whats been discussed ill say that we aught to look at more realistic situations when evaluating the corrupter (and the ultralisk)

    a player that knows these units limitation - and their strengths, will use them accordingly, i based on my limited experience, i would speculate that that this is in the case of the corruptors, to deploy them to tactialy important areas, for example offensively, along with Mutas, to both deny fire from AA and deal consistent damage to any Air to Air that would otherwise pursue the mutalisks and limit the impact of their harassment. (that is, outside getting corr's to simply counter massive units/ base defenses upon assault)

    .. i like the place f the unit. to judge if the numbers are right or not is another story. i cant say. and with due respect, i doubt you can either.
    I am an enthusiast of good strategy games, sc2Esports and rollplay, although i dont really play anything atm.
    I work an internship at a government agency this fall, and have a good time at it.
    I'm being more social, active and honest lately. in all forums.

    Hi.

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