carriers+zealots w/charge

[TheRabidDeer]

i dont want to end up humiliating myself...
but how many viks do you usually need to take down a carrier?

I think a 3:1 ratio will handily beat the carriers (possibly 4:1), so if hes got 5 carriers you should be packing 15 vikings to match.

[arthas]

I think a 3:1 ratio will handily beat the carriers (possibly 4:1), so if hes got 5 carriers you should be packing 15 vikings to match.

Vikings aren't good vs carriers, They have only 0 armor...trust me...You need a lot more than 3:1 , that is if he has a critical mass of carriers...

[senervo]

except for the rather impressive range of the viking...
aren't battlecruisers at all good vs carriers, especially with the yamato...
or are they simply to slow to build..?

[agentheart]

reactor vikings

[protoswarrior]

How are Ultralisks or Corruptors strong...? At all? =S

Are you kidding?

Ultralisks are VERY strong, so are corruptors. The fact that they are not used as they should does not make them weak.

All players who've failed with these units have either tried to "rush" with them or just did not make enough of them, or did not have the econ to support them to begin with.

The units in themselves are HARDLY what I'd call weak. Ultra's only weakness in ZvT is marauders with Thors which are designed to kill armored anyways. making ultras vs them is stupid. You get Ultras to contrast vs an army mix of a kind like massive amounts of tanks and hellions, and only 1-2 Thors.

Vs Protoss, Going Ultras is suicide against mass Colossus with sentry and FF. It is so easy to trap ultras with FF and destroy them with Colossus and stalker fire backed by sentries. You go ultras vs a mostly zealot/stalker templar build which is much weaker in comparison vs the Ultras specifically.

So CHOOSING to build the unit at the wrong time doesn't make it weak.

I could extend over the reasons in parallel to what I gave for the Ultras for corruptors, but I hope my point was clear:

Zerg are not weak - au contraire, they dictate their matchups in most cases.

[Phoenix]

Are you kidding?
Ultralisks are VERY strong.

Ultras are incredibly weak, unless you're fighting mass Marine / Zealot / Zergling. If you think otherwise, refer me to a top level Platinum game where Ultras played a decisive role (even one featuring Ultras would be unexpected).

For 10,000 resources you can get:
- 20 Ultralisk: 12,000 HP; 360 Damage
- 400 Zergling: 14,000 HP; 2,000 Damage (with 23-73% faster attacks it does 6.8-9.6x more damage)

Lings are only weaker when facing large amounts of Hellion, Siege Tank, Planetary Fortress, Archon, Colossus or Baneling.

Hellion, Planetary Fortress, Archon, Colossus and Banelings can be easily countered by going Roach instead (for that same 10,000 resources):
- 100 Roach: 14,500 HP; 1,600 Damage (even with the slow attack it does 93% more DPS than Ultralisks)

The only possible reason is to avoid splash from Siege tanks, by having only 1 unit hit by per tank round. Still, Roaches seem a better bet (with burrowed move/heal).

===

It's worth noting that in SC:BW Ultras had more HP/cost than Zerglings, and Roaches didn't exist as alternative tanks.

Without lowering Ultralisk cost, raising their HP or taking the Roach out; they're merely overgrown Roaches that are hard to maneuver, extremely expensive, gas-heavy units; that should only be used when you have sparse larva and a large amount of extra resources (and cannot expand).

[protoswarrior]

Ultras are incredibly weak, unless you're fighting mass Marine / Zealot / Zergling. If you think otherwise, refer me to a top level Platinum game where Ultras played a decisive role (even one featuring Ultras would be unexpected).

For 10,000 resources you can get:
- 20 Ultralisk: 12,000 HP; 360 Damage
- 400 Zergling: 14,000 HP; 2,000 Damage (with 23-73% faster attacks it does 6.8-9.6x more damage)

Lings are only weaker when facing large amounts of Hellion, Siege Tank, Planetary Fortress, Archon, Colossus or Baneling.

Hellion, Planetary Fortress, Archon, Colossus and Banelings can be easily countered by going Roach instead (for that same 10,000 resources):
- 100 Roach: 14,500 HP; 1,600 Damage (even with the slow attack it does 93% more DPS than Ultralisks)

The only possible reason is to avoid splash from Siege tanks, by having only 1 unit hit by per tank round. Still, Roaches seem a better bet (with burrowed move/heal).

===

It's worth noting that in SC:BW Ultras had more HP/cost than Zerglings, and Roaches didn't exist as alternative tanks.

Without lowering Ultralisk cost, raising their HP or taking the Roach out; they're merely overgrown Roaches that are hard to maneuver, extremely expensive, gas-heavy units; that should only be used when you have sparse larva and a large amount of extra resources (and cannot expand).

Again, you circumvent the point of my post:

I am talking about proper usage of the Ultras.


Also, I no longer watch livestreams, and I am not Platinum level. I cannot pretend to know what really happens on a daily basis at that level of play, but in Gold currently, Ultras, if used correctly, are a really good and strong unit. It's like a ground-based Thor for Zerg.

If not prepped for them, any player can be in a really bad spot and even lose a game if Ultras come out at the right moment.
Kinda like BW, in that sense.

[TheRabidDeer]

Ultras are incredibly weak, unless you're fighting mass Marine / Zealot / Zergling. If you think otherwise, refer me to a top level Platinum game where Ultras played a decisive role (even one featuring Ultras would be unexpected).

For 10,000 resources you can get:
- 20 Ultralisk: 12,000 HP; 360 Damage
- 400 Zergling: 14,000 HP; 2,000 Damage (with 23-73% faster attacks it does 6.8-9.6x more damage)

Lings are only weaker when facing large amounts of Hellion, Siege Tank, Planetary Fortress, Archon, Colossus or Baneling.

Hellion, Planetary Fortress, Archon, Colossus and Banelings can be easily countered by going Roach instead (for that same 10,000 resources):
- 100 Roach: 14,500 HP; 1,600 Damage (even with the slow attack it does 93% more DPS than Ultralisks)

The only possible reason is to avoid splash from Siege tanks, by having only 1 unit hit by per tank round. Still, Roaches seem a better bet (with burrowed move/heal).

===

It's worth noting that in SC:BW Ultras had more HP/cost than Zerglings, and Roaches didn't exist as alternative tanks.

Without lowering Ultralisk cost, raising their HP or taking the Roach out; they're merely overgrown Roaches that are hard to maneuver, extremely expensive, gas-heavy units; that should only be used when you have sparse larva and a large amount of extra resources (and cannot expand).

I think ultralisk can do ok situationally (ultralisks still take more hits to kill than equal cost zerglings btw, thanks to the extra 3 armor).

For example... maybe late game ZvT where the T is using mmm ball with tanks, use like infestor/ultra/ling

fungal growth the ball and send the lings in after ultra's. I imagine the ultralisk cleave would wreck pretty hard.

[protoswarrior]

Oooh! That's scary !

TRD you have a knack for evil lol!

[Phoenix]

(ultralisks still take more hits to kill than equal cost zerglings btw, thanks to the extra 3 armor).

For example... maybe late game ZvT where the T is using mmm ball with tanks

Marauders will make short work of Ultralisks.
- Zergling takes 10* damage
- Ultralisk takes 20** damage

* 10+3 damage + 10+3 damage (against armored) = 26 damage (-6 from max armored Ultra) = 20 damage
** 10+3 damage + 0 damage (no bonus against biological) = 13 damage (-3 from max armored Zergling) = 10 damage

Again, my point:

Ultras are incredibly weak, unless you're fighting mass Marine
The only possible reason is to avoid splash from Siege tanks

The only useful targets for Ultralisks in a M&M&M + Tank ball are the units I mentioned. Add in the fact that Roaches are stronger against Marines (nearly 2x the DPS/cost, more HP/cost), then the only unit that the Ultralisk tries to counter is the tank.

For countering tanks, Brood Lords are much better (and they're the same tech as Ultralisks). Their spawned broodlings will often be shot by tanks (killing free units on your side and massively damaging/killing the enemy's M&M ball).

I don’t see the how Ultralisks are more effective than other units, (maybe to survive a nuclear strike?).