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Thread: New beta player - trying zerg but having issues

  1. #11

    Default Re: New beta player - trying zerg but having issues

    thats where the replays are hiding, thanks!

  2. #12

    Default Re: New beta player - trying zerg but having issues

    You really need to get that extra expansion out there around 14 if you can. While scouting the enemy try to figure out if he plans to rush or tech. If tech keep the expansion.

    Chances are if I watch your replay you may have a ton of minerals. Because out of 1 hatch even with a queen on it you can't spend all of your money on units alone. Helps to have the extra hatcheries. You can support 3 with only 1 expo.

  3. #13

    Default Re: New beta player - trying zerg but having issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas View Post
    This is a very bad build. 10 Pool is fundamentally aggressive; you don't need a pool that early unless you are going for early-game aggression. Going for an aggressive build without the, you know, aggression is not a good idea.

    If you want a kind of middle-ground 1-base build, you want 14-Pool. Possibly 13-Pool, but the distinction is fairly minor. However, you cannot one-base Mutalisks for any real length of time; they cost too much gas for that.

    Also, your transition from Mutalisks to Roaches... well, that just doesn't make sense. You spent all this time teching to the slowest producing Tier 2 building (Spire takes 100 seconds), only to pump a few Mutalisks and transition into Roaches. And you didn't even bother to get defenses until after the Spire?

    There's no way this build can be expected to survive.

    It's also an overly mechanical build, particularly for your level of play. Your build needs to be able to adapt to what the enemy is doing. That's why I'm starting to like 14-Pool/14-Hatch. If I see early aggression, I can cancel the Hatch for later and get more Zerglings. If I see a fast-expo, I can drone up massively. If I detect some kind of timing push, I can throw down whatever buildings and units that are necessary to thwart it.

    What does your build do against early Zealot pressure? How do you plan to survive that when your Roach Warren doesn't happen until after your Spire and Mutalisks finish?

    Your build needs to be less rigid and more flexible.
    I just want to point out that there's a lot more to the 10 pool than just early aggression. It's just as flexible if not more so than the 13-14. I'm not going to go into much detail other than to say test it yourself. Do a 10 pool and a 13 pool. See what time stuff like your pool, queen, zerglings, etc come out at. Write down how many minerals and drones you have at each point.

    I think everyone is under the mistaken impression that the 10 pool is just for rushing, and it's just not true. In fact the only reason I really do the 10 pool is so that I can defend against cheese easier, and because I'm good with spawn larvae so I want my Queen faster.
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    Last edited by TWD; 09-14-2011 at 09:13 PM.

  4. #14

    Default Re: New beta player - trying zerg but having issues

    Take this for what it is worth I've had around 150 career wins with Zerg and I'm in Plat for both 2v2 and 1v1.

    All build orders BO have a specific objective. I don't see one in your thread. You say mutalisks, zerglings and roaches. But that's far from being an objective.

    Most important thing is to scout. I can't stress how important this is. Pooling @ 10 would be somewhat okay if your objective was to do a 6 ling rush. Otherwise stick to pooling at 13 or 15. I always do 15 but I always have as much information of my opponent to know if he's going to attack me soon so if that is the case I pool at 13.

    You can expect to overrun if you don't scout because you will be countered. If you your opponent getting a few marauders don't bother with roaches and stick to lings. See a hellion? Get roach or hydra. See marines get roach or blings. Adapt.

    Here are some "Best Response Tactics"
    vs P get speedlings and muta (assuming P gets immo,stalkers,collosus)
    vs T get Hydra and( Roaches or Zling N Blings) (assuming M&M&M balls)
    Hey guys I want you all to know that my team is playing/did great this weekend so I am going to go ahead and make it my status because I know you all care and want to know my opinion on it.
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  5. #15

    Default Re: New beta player - trying zerg but having issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Woland View Post
    Most important thing is to scout. I can't stress how important this is. Pooling @ 10 would be somewhat okay if your objective was to do a 6 ling rush. Otherwise stick to pooling at 13 or 15. I always do 15 but I always have as much information of my opponent to know if he's going to attack me soon so if that is the case I pool at 13.
    And this is where again I'm saying maybe you should go time it. The only reason why I'm not going to say it outright is because I want people to test it for themselves. I will only say that the main idea is to get the Queen out earlier. There are too many people out there relying upon general knowledge that is simply incomplete. There are advantages to the 10 pool beyond the ability to rush with 6 lings, and there are some disadvantages to it as well. If the op tests it in the manner I described not only will he instantly see what I'm talking about, but he'll be far more capable of coming up with his own builds.

    Also, I think these differences between the builds are far more about personal preference than anything else. If you want to talk about shooting for a specific goal then I think when you place your gas and when you make units other than drones is far more critical.
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    Last edited by TWD; 09-14-2011 at 09:13 PM.

  6. #16

    Default Re: New beta player - trying zerg but having issues

    Wolands advice is solid overall. but i would point out taht its difficult to perform well with muta and even speedlings, if the enemy gets too many sentiers (around 10 of them seems to be adangerous number)
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  7. #17
    Hoywolf's Avatar Junior Member
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    Default Re: New beta player - trying zerg but having issues

    Normally as a zerg I would lend towards pressuring and being aggressive, waiting too late to mass units won't work for you.

    Personally I like to have a 10 or 12 pool to help against other rush heavy strats while attempts to pull one out myself without over commiting... like say a 7 pool strat.

    The key is too expand while forcing your opponent not too.

    ZvZ - I would suggest going rush heavy, zergling, upgraded speed, and attack +1 or def +1 work too. I'd have 1 spine crawler to stop their rush, with queen and you zergling, and its pretty much GG if you counter attack afterwards. 10 pool and 14 extractor should do for your speedling upgrade, and your +1 attack upgrade.

    ZvT - I used to have trouble till i found the right amount to banelings to use and a decent build order, speedlings and banelings can normally make an easy game. Since more terrans wall in, you can take more time to develop and go for a 12 to 14 pool, followed by 2 extractors.

    ZvP - This is a bit harder, zerglings, roachs, hydras are a good combo, but you have to keep the pressure up, force them to not expand, keep an eye on all the expansion bases and sit close to his natural expansion or easy raiding.

    Mutas arent as great as they used to be, and their 100min 100gas is sooo costly, you can just stay on the ground with hyrdas and spore crawler up your base.

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