The Future of Protoss

[Aldrius]

Zealots are not too slow... and charge is certainly not too expensive.

What Blizz needs to do is remove the bonus to armored, or make it much lower. Make the Marauder a damn support unit for your Marines. Keep the slow, keep the high HP. But make Marines needed to dish out the real DPS instead with the Marauder providing minor support vs armored.

That would defeat the whole purpose. The Marauder is intended as an anti-armored unit AND a support unit. Like the Siege Tank has siege mode and tank mode. That's the whole theme of the terrans, two units in one.

The problem is they're too good against zealots and zerglings. Making marauders doesn't eat into your anti-light DPS enough. They have a snare, that's sufficient for making them a bit more generalist IMO.

Something like 8 + 12 rather than 10 + 10 would make sense to me. And maybe not have armor. That's one of the things that makes them so resilient to zergling and zealot attacks.

Stalkers might start countering them then, though.

[whitefire]

Zealots are not too slow... and charge is certainly not too expensive.



That would defeat the whole purpose. The Marauder is intended as an anti-armored unit AND a support unit. Like the Siege Tank has siege mode and tank mode. That's the whole theme of the terrans, two units in one.

The problem is they're too good against zealots and zerglings. Making marauders doesn't eat into your anti-light DPS enough. They have a snare, that's sufficient for making them a bit more generalist IMO.

Something like 8 + 12 rather than 10 + 10 would make sense to me. And maybe not have armor. That's one of the things that makes them so resilient to zergling and zealot attacks.

Stalkers might start countering them then, though.

Its the slow that makes them way to effective against light units. most light units have low health and are fast. The zealot is the exception to this being slower than workers and having a total of 150hp. Zerglings are effective because they are dirt cheap super fast and easily massed. That means that the marauders arnt very effective against them. On the other hand you have the zealot, slow, powerful, and pretty expensive. These atributes make them nothing but rauder fodder with out charge and even then charge only puts them on even ground. If the marauder whas a Toss unit it would have probable been beaten to death by the nerf bat already. Terrans have always been and are always going to be lacking in the mobility department. its just their nature yet they get buffed because they are slow. Medivacs are dropships so a unit most if not all terrans are going to get gives them all the mobility they are going to need. In the early game terrans dont need to move around much thats why they have bunkers to protect your infantry. Yet because people fail to use these two very useful tools they get buffed. Talk about fair. Terrans can salvage their bunkers so you have return on investment and Zerg can move their defenses yet the Toss cant do anythign will cannons. Ya they do it all, GtA, GtG, detection but its still immobile and flimsy.

[InpuBot]

the counter to marauders is air units,

[DemolitionSquid]

the counter to marauders is air units,

So Terran can effectively counter Immortals and Roaches at tier 1 with M&M,
And Zerg can decently counter Immortals and Marauders at tier 1 with Zerglings

But Protoss has to spend tons of gas on Sentries and wait till tier 2 to barely counter Roaches and Marauders?

Exactly what part of that sounds fair or balanced to you?

[Aldrius]

That's not even true... Stalkers beat Roaches pretty well now with even a little micro.

And Zerglings don't counter Marauders that well either.

Granted Marauders being countered by air units is kinda ridiculous... =| Immortals don't even do that well against them once their shields are down.

[whitefire]

Alot of units can kite zealots. and not just the units that counter them. all ranged units can kite them. Kiting zerglings inst as effective because they will either run away or surround their attackers. zealots cant run and can only get a surround with charge. The added mobility of most units make them very hard to use and for a T1 unit thats not good. As far as roach vs stalker is conserned. The roach dose more damage to the stalker than vice versa so in a straight up fight stalkers will lose. Zealot stalker arnt as an effective combo as marine/marauder or zergling/roach because zealots are too easy to take advantage of and stalkers dont do as much damage as Rauders or roaches.

[Aldrius]

Yes, yes, Zerg and Terran are unstoppable, Protoss sucks.

What else is new?

Stalkers outrange AND outrun Roaches. So if EVERYTHING can out kite Zealots, then Stalkers can most certainly do that to Roaches. Particularly with sentries.

Besides that, Hydralisks cannot kite Zealots. Not unless they're on the creep. Marines are too slow and the second a zealot actually reaches them, a few quick slices and they're dead.

The added mobility of most units make them very hard to use and for a T1 unit thats not good.

Mobility hasn't stopped people from complaining about the Roach. And wouldn't you know it, the Zealot is faster, deals better DPS and has more health than the roach.

The zealot is sufficiently powerful, the Marauder is just way too tough AND has a powerful special ability AND deals tons of DPS even to non-armored targets.

[whitefire]

I never said zealots are weak I just said they are slow and yes marauders are really tough. Im saying that either the zealot needs to be at the level of the marauder or the marauder needs to be at the level of the zealot. Its supposed to be a support unit but rauders are taking the placke of marines as a standard unit. Blizz brought this imbalance to light when they nerfed marines and reactors and now they arnt fixing it. as for ZvP as long as you can prevent mutas you will most likely win. I feel though that alot of toss units got the short end of the stick. Some of them simply dont do enough damage or die too quickly. The high price is there but the overwhelming firepower isnt in most cases.

[arthas]

dunno about zerg,but ALL Terran units are countered by either Feedback OR psi-storm.....Maybe except sieged tanks-but those are crushed by Immortals,As for marauders they are designed to be tough...And without stim and medivacs they aren't that effective...And if anyone thinks marauders should have decreased life to support those marines...Then what's the point in making them,when a single psi-storm will wipe all your M&M,and a couple of feedbacks tooks out your healing capabilities??? As for the Air Force of Terran-DS's only positive thing he has said about protoss is right -4 of 5 units are neutralized by the feedback,-Banshees are most of the time halved in hp or instantly killed if you aren't carefull,medivacs become only dropships with half hp,Ravens are only detectors or killed instantly,and battlecruisers loose lots of hp and their only ability that maked them a bit usefull....

[boyofmystery]

thts why scvs can repair them, i wonder why i don't see a lot of terran players committing to repair their mech units though -3-