A Call to Arms [Starcraft I Remake]

[Lucifer]

Wonderful. Once the mapmaker comes out, we can get to work in earnest. Let's start by working on Episode I, one mission at a time, map by map. I'll start up a website where people who are interested can go if they want to help out, and we can start discussion on some of the other aspects that need working out. As newcomplex pointed out, let's start out simple and add additional content as we can.

[almostfamous]

I could try terrain making, I'll see what I can do do emulate and improve the maps...

[NamesAreUseless]

Yes ... THIS is the kind of project I hoped would be started up! I really like your ideas (well haven't read them all, but what I read I liked). I had some plans myself to try remaking missions from the "Starcraft: Loomings" (the Precursor campaign) since I figured everyone and their grandma would want to remake the main vanilla and Brood War missions, and because Loomings is MUCH shorter.

A few points I'd like to make:
- From looking at THESE images, I'm doubting EVERY Starcraft 1 unit will be showing up in Starcraft 2, even if Blizzard said so. Starcraft 1 Science Vessel, Defiler, Devourer, Arbiter, Dark Archon, and others are not in that link (they could be in the editor still, only time will tell). Not to mention that A LOT of the units in SC2 LOOK completely different (and in some cases PLAY completely different) then their SC1 incarnation. I'm quite sure that some modeling and texturing work will need done. Hopefully this project can get some modellers and texturers to help out.
- You said you wanted to start making missions ... how about perfecting the tech tree and gameplay to completely mimic SC1 before any campaign work is done? This should also include SC1 mechanics such as being able to look up cliffs without needing sight above, resource gathering, perhaps try and get SC2 to mimic SC1 Mutalisk stacking, unit grouping AI is much more advanced in SC2 then SC1, etc. Now I'm sure a lot of these things (like unit stacking and grouping mechanics) would be EXTREMELY hard to edit even in Galaxy Editor. Still, all these things are what make SC1 what it is and I think such a mod should look at trying to include as many of the old mechanics as possible.
- I was talking about making the Loomings campaign earlier ... why not start trying to remake a campaign like that before hitting into the main Episode 1-3 campaigns? Get your feet wet before taking the full plunge
- Speaking of the Loomings campaign, what about other SC1 campaigns? I'm sure Brood War Episode 4-6 campaigns are on your mind after Episodes 1-3, but what about Enslavers I & II or the Stukov maps (Deception, Mercenaries II, and Ressurection IV)? That's not even mentioning Insurrection or Retribution, but I can't really see anyone (including myself) caring enough to even wanting to have those remade
- Don't think your the only one wanting to do an SC1 remake mod. Try and recruit others trying to make their own remake mods. Let there be only ONE "SC1 remake" mod team on the internet! Doubt there will only be one SC1 remake mod (I bet there will be at least one all-Korean speaking team at some point), but lets hope there won't be a lot of tiny teams spawning all over the internet with the same goals in mind.

I have the Beta myself right now and I'd be happy to try and help with mapping out some campaign missions once the Editor is released. I was alright with StarEdit, but I wasn't very good with the WC3 World Editor aside from terrain making. Hopefully my years of programming since my World Editor days in WC3 will help out with triggers

By the way, some quick questions:
- I've been trying to extract the .wav files from the Looming campaign missions. Any ideas on how to do this?
- Is there a way to looking at the Episode 1-6 campaigns in StarEdit? I've never figured out how to do this

[Lucifer]

Yeah, I'll definitely need the help of modelers and testers. I would certainly like to get Starcraft I tech tree and mechanics working in the Starcraft II engine, that's a big first priority. However, that's something that other teams are likely already planning on doing as soon as the map editor comes out. I'm much more interested in the campaign design aspect of any remake. That's not to say we shouldn't get the tech tree and mechanics ironed out first, it's just that, as you said, there are undoubtedly teams already planning on this that we should team up with. Do you have any idea where I could find other such teams?

I'd certainly like to do episodes 4, 5, and 6 when we finish with episodes 1, 2, and 3. Long term, I'd also like to convert Loomings, both Enslavers campaigns, and the Stukov series. However, I think I'd like to work on Episode 1 first. The first few missions aren't too complex, and the original Starcraft storyline has a lot more draw than the lesser known Loomings campaign, I think doing a remake of Episode 1 would get significantly more popularity (and thus draw more modelers, texturers, and other such aid).

As for your questions, I'm assuming that you've already tried to use an MPQ extractor? If so, and it didn't work, I don't know what else to try.

You can find the maps for episodes 1-6 here. Also, I've attached Biting the Bullet and Operation Silent Scream, as they can be sort of hard to find. They were uploaded as .txt files because the attacher didn't like the .scm extension, make sure to change the extension back to .scm after you download them.

[NamesAreUseless]

Ah, glad you have all this planned out. Most people who usually want to dive right into these large projects aren't usually prepared for the amount of work they'll take.

Yeah, I'll definitely need the help of modelers and testers. I would certainly like to get Starcraft I tech tree and mechanics working in the Starcraft II engine, that's a big first priority. However, that's something that other teams are likely already planning on doing as soon as the map editor comes out. I'm much more interested in the campaign design aspect of any remake. That's not to say we shouldn't get the tech tree and mechanics ironed out first, it's just that, as you said, there are undoubtedly teams already planning on this that we should team up with. Do you have any idea where I could find other such teams?

Not a particular "team". I just hear people from other forums saying they wanna try remaking SC1 in SC2. If I find anyone on other forums interested in the such a project, I'll be sure to link them to this thread

I'd certainly like to do episodes 4, 5, and 6 when we finish with episodes 1, 2, and 3. Long term, I'd also like to convert Loomings, both Enslavers campaigns, and the Stukov series. However, I think I'd like to work on Episode 1 first. The first few missions aren't too complex, and the original Starcraft storyline has a lot more draw than the lesser known Loomings campaign, I think doing a remake of Episode 1 would get significantly more popularity (and thus draw more modelers, texturers, and other such aid).

Understood. Hopefully we can make the Episode 1 levels look really nice in SC2

As for your questions, I'm assuming that you've already tried to use an MPQ extractor? If so, and it didn't work, I don't know what else to try.

Ah, I didn't know about the MPQ Extractors. I used one from THIS website, and it works perfectly in extracting the WAV files from Starcraft 1 Maps . These WAV files will be necessary if we want SC1 campaigns remade.

You can find the maps for episodes 1-6 here. Also, I've attached Biting the Bullet and Operation Silent Scream, as they can be sort of hard to find. They were uploaded as .txt files because the attacher didn't like the .scm extension, make sure to change the extension back to .scm after you download them.

Ah thanks for the files. Really appreciate it

[MacSlayer118]

This sounds awesome, and would definately be something I would be interested in helping with. I currently work in IT and do some programming, mostly SQL, but all applications I start using I pick up very quickly. I'm hoping this will be the same with the galaxy editor. I also am extremely detail oriented when duplicating things (I build reports for my company) and could definately help with recreating the maps from SC1. Not sure what other things I could help out with before actually getting my hands on the galaxy editor, but this is a project I could see myself having fun with!

[Arkalis]

Cool, so when are we starting the non-editor part (level design, writing, etc.)?

Also, my suggestions on the 1st page of the thread are mostly of episode 3 and 2 since you needed ideas, but well...

The tutorial mission: Boot Camp, will be exactly the same as SC1 or we will fill in with SC2?

[NamesAreUseless]

This sounds awesome, and would definately be something I would be interested in helping with. I currently work in IT and do some programming, mostly SQL, but all applications I start using I pick up very quickly. I'm hoping this will be the same with the galaxy editor. I also am extremely detail oriented when duplicating things (I build reports for my company) and could definately help with recreating the maps from SC1. Not sure what other things I could help out with before actually getting my hands on the galaxy editor, but this is a project I could see myself having fun with!

Well from what I've heard, SC2 Editor will use its own programming language called Galaxy, which is supposed to be similar to C. I'd brush up on some object oriented language programming if I were you

I can't say I have much experience in C myself. My expertise is in Java, so I'm sure I'll probably pick up Galaxy pretty easily.

Cool, so when are we starting the non-editor part (level design, writing, etc.)?

Also, my suggestions on the 1st page of the thread are mostly of episode 3 and 2 since you needed ideas, but well...

The tutorial mission: Boot Camp, will be exactly the same as SC1 or we will fill in with SC2?

I say the Boot Camp mission stays as it is in SC1, where you have to build a base on the Mar Sara space platform and there are some Zerg around it that you can kill with your 16 Marines.

According to Starcraft wikia, there was a second tutorial mission for SC64 to go along with Boot Camp called Officer Training, and Blizzard has said that the N64 content is canon ... but I can't say I've ever seen or played this SC64 tutorial missions. Has anyone remade this tutorial mission for SC1 PC? Oh and apparently Boot Camp in the SC64 version seems to take place on the surface of Mar Sara instead of a Mar Sara platform from what the article is saying ...

My opinion: We keep Boot Camp as it was in SC1 PC and have the Officer Training (based on the N64 map) as an optional mission just like Boot Camp should be. Well that is if I can even find any footage of Officer Training

Speaking of the campaigns, what are we going to do about such characters as the Mar Sara Magistrate? The "Player Characters" have essentially been retconned (I was a darn good Magistrate too!)


EDIT: Sounds like the Galaxy Editor will be a bit limited. SC2Mapster.com looks to be quite the accurate source. Only has 9/26 of the tilesets, I've heard rumors that we might not be able to create triggers, possibly tech tree only units in the editor, etc. Of course, all we can do is wait until its released.

[Lucifer]

Cool, so when are we starting the non-editor part (level design, writing, etc.)?

I'm making a google group for the purpose of discussion. There isn't anything there yet, but I'm working on it.

Also, my suggestions on the 1st page of the thread are mostly of episode 3 and 2 since you needed ideas, but well...

I definitely need all the ideas I can get. Yours are great, just the sort of thing I was looking for.

The tutorial mission: Boot Camp, will be exactly the same as SC1 or we will fill in with SC2?

I have no idea. Whichever is more fun? As NamesAreUseless noted below, we also have the option of including the N64 tutorial missions, which I had no idea existed. You can play them yourself if you want on an N64 Emulator. If I remember correctly, it's legal to download a ROM if you own the original game, if you're going to use it for development purposes, and/or if you delete the ROM within 24 hours. I'm not sure about that, though, so I'm not going to link you to a Starcraft 64 ROM here.

Well from what I've heard, SC2 Editor will use its own programming language called Galaxy, which is supposed to be similar to C. I'd brush up on some object oriented language programming if I were you

C actually isn't object oriented . If you know C, Java, or anything else with that syntax then you should be fine.

Speaking of the campaigns, what are we going to do about such characters as the Mar Sara Magistrate?

I'd strongly suggest keeping them in. A lot of the dialog depends upon their existence. I don't think that they've been retconned out of the story, necessarily, they've just all been dealt with. The magistrate died somewhere before Starcraft II, maybe in one of the ships that was destroyed above Char. The cerebrate was killed, along with all the other cerebrates. The executor turned out to be Artanis.

[NamesAreUseless]

I'm making a google group for the purpose of discussion. There isn't anything there yet, but I'm working on it.

Cool. I would probably prefer a free forum myself, but whatever

I have no idea. Whichever is more fun? As NamesAreUseless noted below, we also have the option of including the N64 tutorial missions, which I had no idea existed. You can play them yourself if you want on an N64 Emulator. If I remember correctly, it's legal to download a ROM if you own the original game, if you're going to use it for development purposes, and/or if you delete the ROM within 24 hours. I'm not sure about that, though, so I'm not going to link you to a Starcraft 64 ROM here.

Just went through the SC64 tutorial missions. Boot Camp is COMPLETELY different from the PC version. In SC64 Boot Camp it starts you off with a single Marine, tell you how to move it, then you get 4 more, fight some enemy Marines, and then you're given a command center which is under attack. After that, you have the objective of building 5 SCVs and then 10 Marines and then the scenario is done.

Officer Training has you start off with a base, and you're told to build an Academy and then 5 Firebats. Afterwards, you're told to attack the enemy Terran base, which is on the other side of a bridge. Mission complete when all the enemy buildings are destroyed.

They're both VERY simple like the PC Boot Camp mission is. Both take place on Badlands tileset. These N64 tutorial missions definitely aren't as important as Resurrection IV (not that I was expecting them to be). Lets just ignore them for now.

C actually isn't object oriented . If you know C, Java, or anything else with that syntax then you should be fine.

You're right ... silly me, I was thinking C++, and technically C++ isn't really an object-oriented either. I haven't touched C in a few years. I just remember hating that I couldn't create classes, which really bugged me. Either way, SQL knowledge isn't going to help out MacSlayer118 a whole lot imo.

I'd strongly suggest keeping them in. A lot of the dialog depends upon their existence. I don't think that they've been retconned out of the story, necessarily, they've just all been dealt with. The magistrate died somewhere before Starcraft II, maybe in one of the ships that was destroyed above Char. The cerebrate was killed, along with all the other cerebrates. The executor turned out to be Artanis.

You're right once again. Might be nice if we try and throw in some text after a specific mission of when these "player characters" probably die. There's also the issue of Artanis being retconned to have always been an Executor (as the player character in Episode 3) and not a Praetor, even though his introduction in Episode 4 has him saying he has "recently been appointed Praetor". I hate lazy retcons like this -_-

My thought: Perhaps Executor is still a higher position then Praetor. Perhaps Artanis was demoted to Praetor between the time of Episode 3 and Episode 4? It could be explained he was demoted (probably by Aldaris) for working in league with the Dark Templar during Episode 3. It could then be said that probably somewhere in Episode 4 that he was promoted back to Executor (afterall Aldaris is killed near the end of Episode 4). Technically is still kinda conflicts with "The Story So Far ..." (as it mentions Executor Artanis at the start of Part 2 when he SHOULD be a Praetor according to Brood War ...). Bah. this is all hurting my head. Of course this discussion has been talked to death in The "you" in the game thread