Zerg, the most mundane race to play?

[BnetGamer77]

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So...why did the OP start off by listing comparisons of Chrono boost - Orbital Command and then just go all out on Zerg units & building issues/balance?

First up, I take it your using the word 'mundane' to state how dull the race is...yet, nothing you commented on about them matched that.

Next up, if you wanted to stick to your own topic, you should of been comparing how each race get's it's own choices of Macro. Yet again, you just flew off into a "Why I think Zerg stink in SC2".

You can't just compare each race as opposites, because they are more complicated-then that.

As far as Econamy goes, Mules for Terran, fast Probs for Protoss via Chrono Boost, and Zerg can mass out drones faster then ether of those 2 races, yet at the cost of army production.

None of the races can work on their economy with out risking part of their attack strategies; whether it's more troops, scouting to see what units you should be getting, or grabbing a must needed upgrade asap.

The shear fact the Zerg are so different from how Terran and Protoss work is what makes them NOT mundane...the very reason I played them in SC1, and in SC2 is how different and original imo they feel from the other 2 races.

Protoss have to make a choice of quick Probs, faster production of attack units, or upgrades.

Terran have to choose to make an anti-harass/rush defense, or a support building like the Orbital Command. Their choice is on a short duration Mule with the boost in resource gathering, vital intel via scans on the enemies base progress/units - or for a quick boost in supply if they need troops out in a pinch.

Zerg don't have any of the options from their Queen/hatchery per-say. They have just has many choices how ever when it comes to the risk of how to use Larva early-mid game. I will agree by late game if 3 hatchery's are up, the risk of running out of larva so long as queens stay busy is void.

If your topic is focused on how little choice a Queen has vs Orbital Command and Nexus, then you win, they don't have many valid choices being Larva spawn till spare energy is mandatory...yet the choice Zerg face in using their Larva is both an advantage and disadvantage vs the Protoss/Terran options.

[DemolitionSquid]

But Mules are ok? Sorry, I don't get it...

And I don't get SL. Different strokes for different folks.

@ b.net gamer

The point the OP is trying to make is that Zerg use the least of what they're given compared to the other races. All Zerg games/matchups involve MutaRoach with a switch to Brood Lords if possible. Sure you can pepper in the occasional Hydramass or Infestors, but really its pretty boring imho. Add in the SL has the least decision-making of the macro mechanics and you get mundane predictable gameplay. At least Terran and Protoss have multiple tech paths to persue depending on the matchup.

[Perfecttear]

But Mules are ok? Sorry, I don't get it...

Mules are super easy to use, you don't need to have an inert timer in your head to use them. Having 100+ energy on the OC is completely aceptable, you don't lose anything, since you can use it at any time without an penalty. Playing as a terran you can go engage the enemy and completely forget about the mules or just save the energy just incase you maybe need a scan. And at the end of the battle, if you didn't need any scans , you just use all the saved energy on the mules, and rebuild your army.
While with the spawn larwa it's completely different, first of it's not an one click ability , first you use the spawn larva ability and then you actualy have to wait a while ( i hate that the most) before you get the extra larva (using mules take maybe 2 seconds of your time away, where the spawn larwa takes quite a lot more time from you), and you have to use it constantly or else you are at an disantvantage, there is no point in saving energy with a queen, having unused energy on a queen means you are just bad in most cases.
I don't have anyting against more macro mechanics , just until it doesn't take to much time from me in the game.
Hope that made some sense


Edit: Now that i think about it, the bigest problem i have with spawn larva is that it is not instant, and that you have to actulay wait 40 seconds before you get you larva. When you have about 3-4 hatcheries it's a nightmare to control everything, and to know all the timings for eatch hatchery ( it's imposible) , and when you will finaly get your larva. Now compare that with how much efort the mules take

[Todie]

i dont use roaches much. more zerglings, roaches situationally

as Nicol made clear, the OP isnt very coherent with concerns to the type of points one expected to be made with concerns to the thread topic.

also being mid gold, i largely agree with newcomplex and GRUNT about the state of the zerg game..
it can be cool to get into the groove and find your own natural flow of the zerg game. but when it comes down to it, there arnt that many clear cut strategic decisions to be made, certainly not compared to the impact value of various P & T lategame possibilities.
This isnt saying zerg are weak or necessarily even that 'mundane' ...its mostly just that its so clear that "all you keep doing" is adapting the swarm, little by little, to face the p or T threat... maybe we can 'fix' that by employing clever leaborate battlefield tactics, but still, i frequently envy P & T potential to actually strategize.

[Norfindel]

While you can practically use anything you want for a Protoss unit or ability, the Terran and the Zerg need to follow more strict guidelines.

Still, use a unit exclusively to keep it inside your base seems like a waste to me, and they're too Roach-centric. I think that the Roach should be used to soak damage while supporting other units. That would give the Zerg a more mixed army.

A side-effect of Roaches in PvZ, is that the Protoss player cannot really go air, so the Zerg player doesn't really need Hydralisks (as they certainly don't need them for anything else).

Maybe they could use something like the Devourer's acid attack on the Roaches: nearly useless by itself, but impoves the attack of the rest of the army. Then they can be a real damage soaker, instead of just a unit with a high attack and very resistant, that costs you nothing.

[Perfecttear]

And another thing that bothers me.
Zerg have to much units with a generic atack ( no bonus atack) zergling, roach, hydra, ultralisk , mutalisk, corupter,broodlord , none of these units have a atack with bonus to something !, it realy limits gameplay, since no unit is specialized against a single target, there is almost no micro neded since most units have no favorite targets, no wonder the zerg feel so limited.
Compare the number of units the zerg have with no bonus damage to the other two races.


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[RamiZ]

@Perfecttear

I just don't see the problem with that. If you are Zerg and have 2 Hatcheries with 2 Queens, you have to:
1)Select 1 Queen
2)cast Spawn Larvae once
x2

If you are Terran, and have 2 CCs, you have to:
1)Select 1 CC
2)Cast Mules as many times as you can, which is ~1-3
x2

After looking at that, you have to click more times with Terran. Yes Mules are extremely easy to use, just as Spawn Larvae. You need to go back every 25 sec(or 40 I forgot) to check are the Larvae ready, and to cast it again if they are ready, but than again, you will just have to select hatcheries and click 'S' and see how many Larvae you got, if you got many, that means you will have to cast Spawn Larvae again.
It is actually pretty much the same as need to constantly check do you have enough energy to cast Mules again.

Also, at least to me, it is far easier to cast spawn larvae, than to constantly spam Mules and Scan at the same time. At least I don't have to worry about Queen's energy where with Terran I have to constantly look at CC's energy and keep asking myself when will I need Scan, to not make mistake where I spend all energy on Mules and enemy comes with something unexpected...

[Asfastasican]

While I would agree that you will only use creep tumor sparingly due to the fact that nearby grouped creep tumors expanding in similar directions will cover less ground, I honestly don't think it's a worthless ability. Creep expansion is very powerful and its harder to counter if you use tumors. If you're a mediocre player that lacks macro, you either have the choice of expanding via overlords or expanding via tumors. Overlords are very easy to spot and kill, and even though one detector and a small enemy force can push back tumor creep, it's still more practical to expand with tumors. Also, if you kill overlords, the Zerg will lose food count, which is a bad bad thing for the zerg player.

Of course, if you have enough macro to use both tumors and overlords effectively in a simultaneous fashion, you'll be able to link expos and bases and also give yourself a speed and sight advantage on the field.

I think something could be done with Transfusion and there's probably a number of good ideas out there to improve the ability. Still, Blizzard has recently merfed static defenses so they might opt to treat Transfusion with kid gloves or just decide to leave the ability alone.

It's my personal opinion that you shouldn't complain about Zerg being "mundane," only because Spawn Larva is AWESOME and Zerg players shouldn't mess with something that's already awesome. I think Zerg become less mundane as your skills improve over time though.

[TWD]

After looking at that, you have to click more times with Terran. Yes Mules are extremely easy to use, just as Spawn Larvae. You need to go back every 25 sec(or 40 I forgot) to check are the Larvae ready, and to cast it again if they are ready, but than again, you will just have to select hatcheries and click 'S' and see how many Larvae you got, if you got many, that means you will have to cast Spawn Larvae again.
It is actually pretty much the same as need to constantly check do you have enough energy to cast Mules again.

Also, at least to me, it is far easier to cast spawn larvae, than to constantly spam Mules and Scan at the same time. At least I don't have to worry about Queen's energy where with Terran I have to constantly look at CC's energy and keep asking myself when will I need Scan, to not make mistake where I spend all energy on Mules and enemy comes with something unexpected...

The difference again is that spawn larvae doesn't stack. If you forget about mule for a while it doesn't matter. Just call down 2 or 3 mules at once instead of just one. In the end the number of resources you get with it is the same. With zerg if you miss the new larvae spawning, that chance to use the ability is gone forever. There is a point mid game where it stops mattering as much since you'll have more larvae than you do resources. However, it is absolutely essential to get it every time early game in order to be competitive.
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MARIJUANA CARD

[Todie]

if you have more hatcheries than queens though, you can use that energy anyway. but sometimes you need those larva NOW, and then youre screwed.