Viking - What makes this unit good // bad?

[Nenol-phoenix]

I don't get the fact that Vikings are best as an arial unit. This might have nothing to do with the role they actually play in the beta, but it's more of doing some thoughts on the very concept of the Viking, and I can already say here, I believe is a concept that is not shown in the least of ways in the beta.

First of all the name, Viking. What did the vikings do? They raided. And based on the mobility of this unit, that would mean quickly covering ground (the viking longboats were the fastest at the time) and landing in enemy bases raiding the crap outta them to fast fly off as if nothing had happened. It would seem this role has been given to the reapers, which as a bio unit could have supported vikings in this role.

Secondly it's this aerial superiority they seem to have gotten, with the huge range and all, even beating the corruptor, as Crota pointed out in one of his shoutcasts, which is supposed to be one of the best Air-to-Air units in game.
I mean. How can a versatile and transforming unit like the Viking excel at what other units that only have one single powerful side (say the Corruptor) are ment to be best at?
It's kinda making the Harriet jet, beat a F-15 in a dogfight. A very versatile unit is in its nature bound to only be average good, though in many ways.
How on earth can a sophisticated transformer unit that must compromise on aereodynamics because of the transformation element beat air-to-air units?

Hehe, sorry for the rant, but those are my conceptual thoughts on The Viking.

Oh, and what's the point of the "suiting up" when going into airmode in the unitportrait? To me it should be the opposite because such a transforming unit would need to give the driver more protection when landing on land. Again the transoforming ability would compromise the armor gainable on such a unit.

Agreed.

However I don't think that means the viking needs a nerf or something like that, more like the other Air to Air units need a buff (yes corruptor I'm looking at you). Some people have said that the only reason why anyobdy gets corruptors is in order to tech to brood lords. I don't have a Beta key so I can't really tell about it but in all the videos and streams I've seen up to date corruptors never really looked like they fulilled their roll.

As for the viking it really does what it need to do. Was watching Gifted's stream earlier and he did an amazing job harrasing with vikings, raiding mineral liines, sniping medivacs, among other stuff.

As for the portrait animation, maybe because it needs to have a closed helmet for oxygen while flying?? I'm not really sure about that

[imdrunkontea]

If the Viking were faster, people would use it to raid more. As it is now, it's too clunky and slow when transforming, and would likely get shot down or let the enemy react in the time that it's landing.

Compare this with, say, reapers, dark templars, and mutalisks. All three can take the element of surprise in their favor, either through speed or complete stealth. Vikings, on the other hand, fly slowly into an enemy base, take several seconds to slow down and transform, and then do mediocre damage. When the enemy closes in, they transform to flee, but again it takes several seconds, and they travel very slowly.

For this reason, their main harassment purpose is only at strategic cliffs or other areas that are physically hard to reach. Otherwise, they're pretty much restricted to AA.

[Nicol Bolas]

How on earth can a sophisticated transformer unit that must compromise on aereodynamics because of the transformation element beat air-to-air units?

The needs of gameplay outweigh the needs of lore.

My objection to the power of Vikings is that they're:

1: cheaper than Corruptors

2: better than Corruptors against air units, even against the Corruptor's preferred target

3: more general-purpose than Corruptors.

But really, that's more of Corruptors needing a buff than Vikings needing a nerf. The Terrans need a solid AtA unit, and the Viking is fine for that. The Zerg need a solid AtA unit, and they currently don't have one.

[Aldrius]

Vikings, on the other hand, fly slowly into an enemy base, take several seconds to slow down and transform, and then do mediocre damage.

The key to using the Viking against ground forces is the key to using MOST air units against ground forces: anticipate.

Know where your opponent is going to be next. So you don't get caught. Transform BEFORE he engages your vikings. If you're using them for raiding.

Against ground forces in an actual battle just mix them in with your army... Then if you need AA transform them back into air mode.

And they do very good damage. Much better than Mutalisks certainly.

If the Viking were faster, people would use it to raid more.

It has 9 range! I don't need that thing kiting my air units.

But really, that's more of Corruptors needing a buff than Vikings needing a nerf. The Terrans need a solid AtA unit, and the Viking is fine for that. The Zerg need a solid AtA unit, and they currently don't have one.

Corruptors counter Seeker Missile at least... that's about it as far as ATA goes. And they're better against phoenix than Mutalisks are. So if you haven't gone for a Hydralisk den, that's probably a better option.

Otherwise... get mutalisks unless you're going brood lords.

[imdrunkontea]

I'm only mentioning Viking speed to compare them to units like the muta. With the muta, you don't need to anticipate - u just fly around until u find an opening, because no other unit can catch up. The Viking, on the other hand, is much slower; if your initial attack fails, there's often little hope of running away and attacking another area of the enemy base, because you're so slow and take so long to lift off and land again that the enemy will be right there by the time you're ready to fight.

As far as the 9 range thing, that's great and all for AA. Too bad I'm talking about base raiding, in which the range is much shorter.

[Aldrius]

With the muta, you don't need to anticipate

Of course you do. They have no range. In order to attack you have to let a missile turret/thor/viking beat on you for a few seconds. Unless you anticipate and know that they don't have any of that stuff ready yet.

As far as the 9 range thing, that's great and all for AA. Too bad I'm talking about base raiding, in which the range is much shorter.

It's 6. It's not that much shorter.

And ATA... GTG... it's the same thing. It's not two different units we're talking about. It's one. They need to be balanced doing both.

But anyway, the Viking is not intended to be the Mutalisk. It's supposed to be a goliath/wraith hybrid. With the wraith's harassment potential being given to the banshee. Vikings still CAN be used for harassment, but not as well as the wraith could or the mutalisk can. It takes a touch more skill.

[imdrunkontea]

Of course you do. They have no range. In order to attack you have to let a missile turret/thor/viking beat on you for a few seconds. Unless you anticipate and know that they don't have any of that stuff ready yet.



It's 6. It's not that much shorter.

And ATA... GTG... it's the same thing. It's not two different units we're talking about. It's one. They need to be balanced doing both.

But anyway, the Viking is not intended to be the Mutalisk. It's supposed to be a goliath/wraith hybrid. With the wraith's harassment potential being given to the banshee. Vikings still CAN be used for harassment, but not as well as the wraith could or the mutalisk can. It takes a touch more skill.

And I agree. My point was answering the question of why people don't use the Viking as a raider more often. It's a fine unit on its own, but in its current form it is in no way a great raider.

[Nenol-phoenix]

And I agree. My point was answering the question of why people don't use the Viking as a raider more often. It's a fine unit on its own, but in its current form it is in no way a great raider.

I don't have a beta key so I guess I don't have much to say about this but I've seen Gifted use them a lot in his streams and damn they DO look useful as raiders

[imdrunkontea]

I don't have a beta key so I guess I don't have much to say about this but I've seen Gifted use them a lot in his streams and damn they DO look useful as raiders

i'm not saying they're horrible - HDStarcraft used them effectively in a zvt - I'm just saying that other harassing units are almost always better at their job than the Viking is. that's not surprising, of course, because the Viking is currently mainly an anti air unit, but I'm just throwing it out there.

[newcomplex]

AA that gives very strong map control due to its ability to land and harrass. It also does the most DPS for a 2 food unit

They would be incredibly OP if they were smaller lol. The sheer size of their ground form is a enormous disadvantage, discouraging massing.