The Zerg Players thread

[GGsmung]

Hmm that's pretty interesting, especially when trying to snipe blings when they're running around without any assist. Then I guess it all comes down to timing because that 150gas could be used for 6 blings... which is huge :/

Yeah, thats true, but if you would able to squeeze it somewhere in your build it might be worth it.
I tried it and it worked pretty nicely until the other player went roaches...

and i'd rather have 6 extra blings vs that

[Todie]

rather have extra blings against roaches? why?

... im very hesitant to even try a dedicated loing build ZvZ, becasue even low bane numers are so sceary, and the general fear of roaches, now that they're range 4 and everything...

.. the +1 armor upp does block the first roach attack upp from enabling roaches to two-shot lings though.

maybe ling into hydra/infestor support could ahve some merrit, but it strikes me as very risky in the face of anyone with a banelingsnest; decent bane-numers before fungal would be devastating. not to mention the possibility of n attack ugprade to negate the early armor advantage on the lings.


.... hypotheticaly speaking. ZvZ is probably my weakest.

[Todie]

ive been feelign a little troubled in ZvT lately, trying to think of good ways to branch out from ling/baneling/muta/infestor, because terrans at my level of play are becoming quite competent with basic wanna-be-pro marine+tank play, with tanks to limit infestor usefulness and make it quite hard for banelings to be cost effective.


... so, im thinking of roaches.. potential viability agaisnt even infantry-heavy compositions; if i delay my lair for quick upgrades to allow a quick +2 attack when i do get lair... can i hold a reasonably early third with a roach-heavy earlygame?

either way, it would probably be risky to try to saturate a third too fast (saturating the natural fast is risky enough!) ... but taking gas from three bases allows for more upgrades, including some melee attack for zergling viability when needed, infestors and burrow - to hopefully allow burrowed-movment combinations of raoch+infestor for harassing, and maybe more importantly, deep flanking (i imagine unburrowing behind an enemy tank+MMM army with infestors + some covering roaches, get off a fungal and NP a few tanks, perfectly timed with a frontal assault of roach+ling+infestor...)

.. with gas from mroe than 4 extractors reasonably early, there might also be room for some mutalisk play in this; even threatening muta harass is invaluable and if opponent responds with marauders to the roahces, ling+muta is important...


.... i like this idea alot, in theory. but these things rarely work out as you want them to.

... as flimsy as it sounds, im still hoping it might provide a more straightforward option to play ZvT than the zergling/baneling-based ; that one is so tempo based - it all comes down to if the banelings are able to land as tehy should or not; lings and mutas smelt away so fast to any stimmed marines that remain. roaches are different. sure, marines can be quite cost effective against them, but for that they need to keep clustered up and vulnerable to fungal (and baneling traps?) ... roaches with 2+ attack will 3shot marines even if they have +1 armor and shield.


does anyone have anythting to say about Roaches vs terran infantery in general?

[GGsmung]

does anyone have anythting to say about Roaches vs terran infantery in general?

A roach/infestor composition is quite good vs most things. The range upgr helps the roaches and any inf terrans you spawn. It's been working well for me lately. When roaches don't have creep then stimmed MMM can easily kite them but with fungal you eat through them as fungal will (almost) kill most of the marines and nullifies any kiting. And u don't have to worry about any drops any more, just 1 fungal and a few inf terrans and it's gone. It also opens to alot of burrow play like sneaking 5 infestors into one of their expo and spamming inf terrans with 2-2 upgr can be a pain for terrans. And the burrow will help the roaches obviusly. It isn't that good vs heavy mech play but with good inf terran placement and maybe getting NP can help alot. It also is very good economy wise (roaches are cheap and cost little gas and infestors expensive and cost high amounts of gas). As for late game then you want to mix in brood lords or ultras as roaches are not that good late game them being a 2 food unit.

It works very well in ZvP and ZvZ as well.

[B~E]

As anyone else having a lot of success with an early speedlings/blings push? By the 6:30min mark, I usualy have 15-20 speedlings and 5-8 blings in front of my opponent's base, some 18 drones mining, and two queens. Its working wonders against terrans and protoss who do not commit to early agression and who chose to rush to tier-2.

It doesnt finish off protoss in general or terrans who produce marauders, but its usualy enough to give them a bloody nose and give me the initiative and map control.

I never reall try this during mirror match.

I could always post some replays (im in silver).

Any thoughts?

[Todie]

As anyone else having a lot of success with an early speedlings/blings push? By the 6:30min mark, I usualy have 15-20 speedlings and 5-8 blings in front of my opponent's base, some 18 drones mining, and two queens. Its working wonders against terrans and protoss who do not commit to early agression and who chose to rush to tier-2.

It doesnt finish off protoss in general or terrans who produce marauders, but its usualy enough to give them a bloody nose and give me the initiative and map control.

I never reall try this during mirror match.

I could always post some replays (im in silver).

Any thoughts?

i rarely if ever do this anymore, because i deem it unnecessarily risky at my level of play; im going to lose my scouting drone before i gather enough intelligence to know if a banebust would work well enough to be worth it (it has to work pretty damned well!)

meanwhile, if my opnents suspect it for a second they will take precautions, and though they may not shut it down compeltely (at least not terran) it wont be worthwhile (just blowing up some bunkers/depots/a barracks or addon istn worth it; think of all the drones you could have made that could have made you hudnreds of minerals the last few minutes + infinty during the rest of the game) ... a Protoss can hold its ramp with a forcefield and deny any damage (and non-pylon buildigns have enough shild&HP to make em costly to brake), terrans will build extra bunkers ....


.... Im sure there are situations where its a good move; scrap station with its wide ramp comes to mind, as does situations vs fast expansions down in the more open & exposed areas (also, if they are expanding, they're delaying their gas income & tech; there'll be fewer pesky marauders and sentries to deal with, if you hit fast enough. (im talking about very early expo, like 1gate for p maybe 1-2 rax for T)


..... Finally, whenever you commit to early Baneling aggression, make sure you commit sufficiently; keep reinforcing with speedlings until you are sure you will / are / have caused economic damage (or make a clear halt and only make drones whenever you deem success impossible) .... whatever you do, dont hesitate!

... i hope you aint hitting with ONLY 5-8 banes; you need the zerglings behind them, to run right in and cause havoc as you bust a hole!

[JackhammerIV]

Could do the banelings Kyrix style.:P Commit to tons of banelings mid game designed to just bust through and kill everything. Maybe even baneling drops. I wonder how well that style does against Protoss. I saw it work well in GSL Season 2 or 3 versus terrans. Funny how Kyrix saw rax factory wall off and just made 6+ more banelings and busted through anyways. LOL.

[B~E]

... i hope you aint hitting with ONLY 5-8 banes; you need the zerglings behind them, to run right in and cause havoc as you bust a hole!

Well, at the 6 min mark, I usualy have 24-25 speedlings in front of his base, which I convert into as many banes as possible then (usualy 6-8). So I hit him before the 7 min mark.


I done this about a dozen time in silver, and I've never ran into an efficient use of force field. I'll probably happen later on tough. Honestly, I've never ran into a player that was prepared for it.

(it has to work pretty damned well!)

In my level of play, I'm not even worried about whether if fully work as planned or not. At worst, I bust in and kill a reasonable amount of tier-1 troops. At best, I hit his mineral line. In any case, he's in no position to hit back, I know what he's up to, and then I can chose between these options; I can gear up my economy, expand, make a lair, or continue applying pressure with more speedlings and banes.

e: I think I sound overly optimistic. :P

[Todie]

indeed you do

but by all means, keep on keepin it real, just stay critical as to the reasons you lose when you lose, because you will lose, everyone does..

[B~E]

I just did. He used FF quite a lot, I switched tech too late, then 4 voidrays laters it was gg.