The Zerg Players thread

[Nicol Bolas]

I just lost a game that I should never have lost (IMO). I consistently had a higher food limit and higher resource cost army than my opponent. His army consisted solely of air units - void rays, carriers and by the end a mothership. I was microing my hydras to take down his units one at a time (focussing on the lower hp units first) and despite all this, his air force slaughtered my defenses.

Um, I don't see how you use this to come to the conclusion that "Alright, I admit it, hydras are garbage against toss air."

You decided to mass 1 unit against 3 different kinds of units, all with different strengths and weaknesses. What did you expect to have happen?

Where were your Mutalisks? Where were your Corruptors? If you didn't build any, then why not? When your enemy goes power air, you need to follow, at least to some extent.

[keruya]

can't wait for the Asian Zerg players going for the build they are

already seen check's build and this guy is awesome he always goes for fast expand and maybe to some extent he can always pulls off from any early harass

[zanuk]

guys dont know if i have to post it here but...

Im looking for some replays from idra.. (i mean the real sc2 replay files)

Since he has a great macro and good BO...want to 'study' it a bit

so you guys can help me?

[DutuCatalin]

i think that zerg is still a good race in sc2 because fungle groth from infestors,i think that this skill is the most exciting and usefull of the game

[GnaReffotsirk]

You guys have a compendium on ZvZPT? Like this build order/opening gives you this vs the opponent's this.

Like this opening counters that opening because this opening gives you this, and all you got to do is use this for a while until you get that and etc etc.

It would be nice to have something like this.

[Blackdogkt]

I'm low ranked and a lot of my builds are mostly theory-crafting, as in "i know what i have to do, i just can't do it well enough/fast enough to win enough games".

However, my openings in most cases are pretty standard, i use one of these 2 depending on circumstances:

10 pool:
Make drones until 10/10 supply
Overlord
Spawning pool
Make 3 more drones until pool finishes, maybe an extra overlord
Build extractor, send 3 drones on it when finished
Make 6 zerglings and a queen as soon as larva and minerals permit

If i want to tech fast to tier2 i get the extractor early, if i want to put some early pressure i get it after the 6 lings and queen. I use this build on small maps to have a chance at early harassment before the opponent manages to wall himself off. I also use it on 2v2 maps with a wide ramp that can't be easily blocked, so i think it would work ok in scrap station for 1v1 as well.

I don't send any scouting drones because i need to maximize mining time and i don't send the initial overlord to scout unless i'm facing protoss, otherwise it could get shot down and supply block me in an early critical stage. The first 6 lings come fast enough to allow me to scout as i harass the opponent's base, plus i use this on small maps or 2v2 where i have some backup.

12-13 pool:
Drones until 10/10 supply
Send 10th drone to scout
Overlord
3 more drones until 13/18
Extractor (3 drones on it when finished)
Spawning pool as soon as you have 200 minerals
3 more drones while pool is building (16/18) and an overlord (16/26)
Make 6 lings and a queen

This is my "balanced" build that i use when i want to have a stronger economy and/or tech faster. I don't use this too much on small maps where i might get rushed, but it works well on bigger maps and 2v2. Especially if the ramps are narrow and the distance is big (aka i know he might be walled off before i reach him with a 10-pool rush), i prefer this so that i can tech up faster.

In both cases, while i'm pumping lings with my queen i also keep making drones, as in 3 lings/1 drone or 2 lings/2 drones per set of spawned larva. I mainly use the "normal" larvae from the hatchery for drones and overlords and use the queen's larvae for lings. This means i end up with an over-saturated mineral line (about 4-8 extra drones), which is good because i can then transfer them to a possible expo,use them to get my 2nd gas up and running or build extra structures or crawlers for defence. Somewhere around this point i get an evo chamber and plant 2 spine and 2 spore crawlers behind my mineral line. At this point the queen's energy is high enough that i can also spawn a creep tumor between injecting larva.

As soon as i have the resources i go for the speed ling upgrade and then tech to lair. It's important to have or be getting the 2nd gas around this point.
I also get a 2nd queen well before i get a 2nd hatch, the minerals pile up anyway if i don't and 2 queens are good to have in case of early air cheese. Depending on the map and if i feel safe to expand (ie i won a skirmish or have enough defences and a good creep highway to my natural), i will build a 2nd hatch to take my natural or simply build it in my main. Going 2 hatch in your main is good if you need the extra larva but you are concerned with overextending yourself.

This all happens within the first 5-7 minutes of the game. From that point it's "go with the flow", depending on what race i'm playing against and what he's making.

Against zerg i go early lings (10 pool) since they can't wall off, then tech to banelings and hydras.
Against terran i go either of the two depending on map and again, tech towards a ling/bane/hydra army.
Against protoss i usually get less banelings and also get mutas before hydras. I still get hydras, but what i want to do is force them to commit to cannons or air units by showing my handful of mutas (10 or so maximum), then have 10-20 hydras ready for when they make the tech switch i forced on them.

As i said, it's all good in theory, i'm just not fast enough to juggle everything yet. I end up either having too much money or being low in resources just as i'm mining out my main and my expo is not yet properly saturated, which means i get a 30-60 second delay in my massing while i move the drones over.

[GuaiLow]

When i play as zerg against protoss i find that i have to build two really early spine crawlers simply to counter the zealot rush and since i have started doing so i haven't been beaten by that strategy however a lot of the time my opponents go for void rays and i was just wondering what the most effective unit against these might be.

[Todie]

Try getting more early queens sintead of those peremtive spinecrawler, a queen can be almost as good as a crawler for fending off zealots, but it will also be great at fending off those first VR's

[GuaiLow]

Try getting more early queens sintead of those peremtive spinecrawler, a queen can be almost as good as a crawler for fending off zealots, but it will also be great at fending off those first VR's

THx. I'lll try this next time has anyone got any other suggestions.

[Hammy]

Yeah protoss are being really aggressive nowadays! I try to get an early expansion (13/14pool and 15hatch) + an early baneling nest. This slightly delays my tech (but then I double or triple gas to catch up) but I still get my hydra in time to beat void rays if they come. With banelings you're safe from the zealot attack, and the more zealots he makes, the more effective your banelings will be if you micro them well.

I get my 2nd queen when my hatchery is at 50% so that I can inject the second it's up (which is a bit later than what Todie was suggesting I think: I stall with blings and zerglings instead).

I like this build because I'm only spending 50gas for a building I'll be needing anyways, and I can modulate my defense very easily with banelings (while being able to be offensive when needed). If I scout him and see 6 zealots, I'll just make whatever banelings I need to squelch that attack.

However, going for a queen or spine crawlers is cheaper in gas and in attention, but I haven't had much luck with defensive builds because going for zealot pressure doesn't harm the Protoss' economy much so his follow-up will be strong. That's why i try to mess with him with zerglings (and banelings if necessary) until my hydra get there and the macro battle begins.


I should note that I fully agree with Todie's suggestion^^ Getting that early queen gives lots of other options (while helping you fend off the pressure). With a build that involves multiple early queens I would go for more of a zergling/roach-heavy build and stall my T2 tech for a while to get a huge econ advantage (since I'm not afraid of air: a bunch of queens back home), and then transition into muta after he's commited to robo tech and immortals/collossi. That worked great in many recent mid-level replays I've seen, and I think it's also what TLO does most often times. If he goes stalker heavy you'll be needing hydra of course.

I rambled a bit but I hope this is helpful : )

wrap-up:

When a protoss goes for 2gate pressure, I can see two options:

-Very early second queen. Follow-up with roaches and zerglings, while keeping enough queens to fight off any air build, and apply pressure. Once his robo tech is pumping immo/collo, get a spire and harass, or get a hydra den if he commits to air.
OR
-Early baneling nest (first 50gas to nest, next 100gas for metabolic), expand early (you can afford it since you're safe with your ling/blings) and macro up. T2 once you're safe and transition to a mass-load of hydra (on 4 gas you can do tons of damage). Counter collossi with corruptors. If he goes for HT, his army will be zealot heavy: either add on some infestors for fungal, or roaches for meatshields, or banelings to melt the front lines (requires heavy micro). Hydra will be the backbone to your army though. It's good to be one base ahead of him with this build.

I'm NOT saying this is always what you should do, or that this is the best build. This is just what I've seen and experienced the most.