The Protoss Players Thread

[Gradius]

The nervousness & indecision goes away by massing more games and sticking to your build. Just have to get lots of practice in. The good or bad news is you have lots of room for improvement.

Mechanics (focus on this before anything else):

• Inconsistent probe production throughout.
• Spending is less than optimal. Make sure to check on warp gates to see if the cooldown expired.
• You just have a slow reaction to events: i.e. sending guys to gas when it finishes and morphing warp gates. I would recommend tapping, where you hotkey things that are building, and check on them once in a while. That's how you get high APM (if you really want it) and it helps you not miss anything (such as probes).
• Make your building placement timings more crisp. Send your probe at 50ish food, not 100. Following a build off teamliquid will be hard if you don't do this.
• No major supply blocks on the Tal'Darim game, so that's good.

Scrap Station

• Man you just gotta wall off on scrap station. This lost you the game I believe. Pylon, gateway, cyber, zealot and you basically have a wall. Zergs will always ling rush you when they can just walk in your base. You got double gas, but made no sentries b/c sentries aren't too good in the open.
• Your build order is just not good. You got supply blocked at 18 too.
• You didn't morph your gateways to warp gates for like 3 minutes.
• Don't make probes when you're getting attacked unless you know you can get away with it.

Tal'Darim

• Blink stalkers is a decent response but it's really the cheese that lost you the game IMO, though it's really surprising you were ahead in workers half the game. Won't normally happen if you fail a cheese. Your gateway was started so late that he had the tech advantage on you.
• I like that you didn't get the gas at your natural until you needed it. That's what you want to do with everything basically (except probes). :P
• Your scouting needs to be alot better. An attack at 9 minutes could have done some serious damage. Passivity is also the downside of walling yourself in. Don't be afraid to break out alot earlier.
• On 2 saturated bases you can support alot more than 5 gateways.

[SpikeVorador]

thank you gradius! i gonna try to put this on practice, but i have a couple of questions:

"I would recommend tapping, where you hotkey things that are building, and check on them once in a while."

what is tapping? i have look for it in google and all i find is a elec. guitar technic!


"Make your building placement timings more crisp. Send your probe at 50ish food, not 100. Following a build off teamliquid will be hard if you don't do this."


what do you mean with "crisp" and sending my probe at "50ish food"?


thank you alot =D.

[silencbank]

thank you gradius! i gonna try to put this on practice, but i have a couple of questions:

"I would recommend tapping, where you hotkey things that are building, and check on them once in a while."

what is tapping? i have look for it in google and all i find is a elec. guitar technic!

"Make your building placement timings more crisp. Send your probe at 50ish food, not 100. Following a build off teamliquid will be hard if you don't do this."

what do you mean with "crisp" and sending my probe at "50ish food"?
thank you alot =D.

As with most things related to starcraft 2, if you had just added "day9" to your tapping Google search you would have found it very easily. "Tapping" is just a quick hit of a hotkey so that your camera stays where it is, but the unit card at the bottom changes to whatever you just hit the control group for. For example; you are fighting off some roach invasion at your third base and want to know how long you have until your next colossus is out and if you are going to have to cue one more up soon. You then hit your control group for your robo bay ONCE (by tapping it) and you can see at the bottom of your screen your progress for how long your colossus is going to take. If you double tap (good for zombies, but not always good for sc2) your control group for your robo, the camera will zoom to the robo bay as well, taking you away from the fight at your third. The double tap is a great way to bring your camera to a certain place really fast using your control groups (such as an army) instead of scrolling the map or hitting the minimap. If you want the answer from the source you can check out day9 daily #252 here: http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-25...vement-4730506. In that episode you will also get some great tips about mouse control and basic mechanical questions that can greatly improve your mechanics.

As for the "crisp" part Gradius just misspoke a bit is all. When he said "food" he actually meant "minerals". The point he was trying to get across though is VERY important. By being "crisp" with your build times you get things out as soon as possible. To be 'crisp' with your building times is to build the build AS SOON AS you have the money to do so and not waiting until you have that much money before you send a probe out. By sending out a probe early to where you want to build that building you can build the building exactly where you want it at, exactly when you have the resources to do so. THAT is the essence of being crisp, to make sure that you always have your probe ready to build what you want to build, WHERE you want to build it, precisely when you have the money to do so. No it is not an easy thing to do but, it is one of the best ways to not lose to early rushes. By having your timings crisp and smooth you can get to where you need to go as fast as you can. The best way to get used to the timings is by practicing your opening over and over again. When I first started out and was learning to be crisp with my build timings I repeated the exact same opening 50+ times just so I knew when I needed to send my probe out to build what I need to build.

As for walling off on Scrap Station. It is a pain in the butt. With the new smaller pylon radius I had to find a new way to wall off that forced me to make part of my wall a pylon. It is not as strong as the ones on maps with smaller ramps but it prevents ling runbys, and that's the only reason I need it. Do not mind the actual build though. What I was doing there was just something I know and keep practicing on. Just pay attention to the wall off section of it.

[Gradius]

Yes Silenc that is what I meant, thank you for elaborating.

Here's a good picture: http://i.imgur.com/uIlty.jpg

[Drake Clawfang]

If someone could tell me how to post replays, I'd like to share a couple of mine.

I'll mention at a glance my standard strategy is to quickly get to a Robo Bay usually with 4-6 Warp Gates, and use Chargelots and Blink Stalkers with Immortal or Colossus support depending on the opponent and their strategy. I usually go Colossus against Terrans because I expect MMM balls, though if I've reason to believe in a match that Colossi won't work for whatever reason, I'll use HTs. I inevitably find myself with a mass surplass of minerals sooner or later, in which case I'll make several more Gateways, usually ending up with a dozen, so my troop production can keep up with my mineral production. A second Robo Bay isn't uncommon for me either.

I'm pretty good at expanding when needed and my economy is usually very strong in any game I play, 20+ probes on mineral lines though that decreases as I split them up among different patches. Usually if I don't have the most resources I'm a close second, even in 2v2s, which I like seeing because it means to me I've conquered one of my greatest weaknesses - in the original game and in the early SC2 days I *never* expanded, and if I did it was done too late. I also get supply blocked more often than I care to admit, but I am still better at it than I once was and keep an eye on my supply in the early game - its usually when the late game comes and I go nuts using those 12 Warp Gates to build up my forces that I hit the ceiling.

I've only used an air force in 2v2, largely because I consider it riskier and more expensive than my normal strategy. However I find with a decent fleet of Phoenix and Void Rays I have passable micro, against Zerg and Protoss my Phoenix can keep Stalkers and Hydras stunned while the Void Rays attack, and my micro with them has let me win battles I'd otherwise have lost painfully.

[JackhammerIV]

When you make a new post. Next to the emoticon thing is a paperclip. Click it, select the replay you wanna show us then upload it. Simple as that. Your replays are sort of buried. In the Starcraft 2 folder in Documents or My Documents. Then you go under your account name then search around and you'll find your replays.

[Drake Clawfang]

Right. Unfortunately all my latest ones are 2v2 so I'll provide some 1v1 replays tomorrow.

[Drake Clawfang]

Okay, here we go.

Zerg replay, I simply panicked and tried to overwhelm him to stop the fast expo and blew it. I also didn't expand and when I realized that I just left, I had no mineral flow for a while and he had two bases, no way I could have won from there I figured.

First Terran replay, I expanded early and had a ton of probes at both sites. I kept a Zealot at his expo to watch for an expansion and kept my army built up, I got supply blocked a couple times but I queued up several pylons each time. I also went with HTs instead of Colossi, just to try them out, didn't do much though and it was a surprisingly simple fight. I like to think the single proxy pylon at the end helped me push, but maybe I didn't need it, dunno.

Second Terran replay (though the first one on the list), I was busy commanding my probe and didn't Force Field in time, he got sight up my ramp and that was it. I also got dumb creating Zealots instead of Stalkers.

PvP, I saw the early Cy Core at the lower ramp, figured he was gonna try fast expo and decided to pressure with my starting zealots. I got several probes and though the rush didn't succeed I thought the loss of those probes and the time spent fighting me off bought me enough of an eco advantage to reinforce and rush again with ranged units and more Zealots. Sure enough, a couple Zealots with a Sentry and Stalker overwhelmed him, and another proxy pylon at the end helped me push on. He did a couple drops but I fended them off with ease. I consider this the best of the four replays, and I think its one of me at my best period - I kept my army built up, my buildings building and researching, and my resources flowing, and I scouted out as best I could (he's Terran so hard to get into his base, but I was watching for his troops and potential expos).

[JackhammerIV]

PvZ..........
-Uhhhhhhhh zerg didn't mine for the first 29 game secs.

-Typically make pylons on 9. Makes more sense economically. Especially since you chrono probes a lot.

-Ummm...no walloff??? You could just wall the choke between your main and the natural leaving a small spot for a zealot.

-Going 10 pylon 11 gate means you're going for an early attack. Otherwise it kinda puts you back a bit economically. Or you could use it to tech really quickly but you didn't take any gases. Standard is like 14 or 15 supply then first gas. Cross map 1 gate zealot on Tal'Darim Altar isn't exactly gonna hit zerg that quick. Plus if you're doing an early attack you'd normally save chronos to chrono units/warp gate or something early attack related.

-The whole opening 6-7mins for you basically messed you up bad. You committed to a 1 gate zealot attack cross map and didn't do enough damage to make it worth how much it set you back. You had a crazily late cyber core. Not walling off at the choke made things worse later on when his lings ran in.

-Plus there's this super annoying thing you can do to a greedy zerg that does that on Tal'Darim. Just the moment you see hatchery before pool....put down a forge. Don't cancel anything building of course but cut a few probes here and there to get the minerals for it. Then cannon rush his natural hatchery. Sometimes even block off the choke between main and natural completely with pylons then cannon from there to the natural hatchery. BUT note...zerg usually after that will try a nydus worm or large attack so don't get too greedy. Take your natural but don't chrono probes too much or try to tech too fast. For this reason some Protosses love to Forge Fast Expand on that map (myself included) because you can cannon rush zerg if he's too greedy.

-Overall....try looking at more standard play PvZ on Tal'Darim Altar. The map is a bit too large to depend upon non-proxy'd gateways as an early attack. Early pressure sure but not an early attack.

-Standardly it's fine for Protoss to have Zerg hatchery first before pool and for Protoss to take his expo much later. But of course putting on early pressure with a zealot and stalker. Most cases 1 or both units die but it doesn't allow zerg to drone too much.

Thoughts on rest of the replays to come later.

[JackhammerIV]

PvT close air positions on Shattered Temple..
-You got a forge at 3.30 to get cannons at 7 minutes. So ya......could just delay that forge. A forge takes 45 game secs to make. So you could put it down at 6.15 and still put down those cannons at 7 minutes

-Opener looked more standard. Except zealot before cyber core. And cyber core late by 30 secs. The core should have been put down at 3 mins not 3:30. You had the money for it and you don't need the zealot that early unless he's doing a super cheese. And while you saw 2 rax it was 1 rax finish then only start the second rax so ya.....didn't really need that zealot that early.

-You didn't make a gas unit until quite late. If terran did an early attack on you he could have outmicro'd your zealots completely and done a lot of damage to you. Not making any gas units at all for quite some time and taking gases at a normal time led to you having a lot of gas at 7 mins. If you're going sentries then the earlier you make them the better. They can gain energy and free up minerals for building things.

-Your warp gate finished at 7minutes. It could have been at 6:30 or earlier with chronoboost. Your first warp in happened at 9minutes. Ummmmmm....make units....and uhhhh.....if you want to go so zealot heavy maybe only take 1 gas. The whole idea of warping in is to warp in what you can afford to manage your economy. "Oh my gas is high so I warp in sentries now." And if you decide you don't want to warp in sentries at that point in the game think "Ok next game I take my second gas later because I don't want to have to warp in so many sentries."

-In terms of cannons...you don't need the one behind the mineral line at your main. The other 2 cannons already give detection so you just have good minimap watching and move units to intercept banshees or drops. And you could just use one cannon at the front not two. You were late sending scouts to see his natural and the watchtower. You can just send a probe. It's cheaper than a zealot, faster and can put down pylons in the field.

-You had no idea what units he was making at all. You could have just sacrificed a probe between 6-8minutes by just running up his ramp and watching to see what kills it.

-There's no more Khaydarin Amulet. You should warp in some high templar before storm finishes so they can gather enough energy.

-When you finally decided to attack......sacrificial zealots first on move command. Proxy pylon a bit too close considering he has tanks. You should wait for the pylon to finish and you warp in one more round before attacking. Zealots should lead the charge not stalkers. High Templar require a lot of care so put them on a separate control group. For that matter using some control groups for units isn't a bad idea. Guardian shield before attacking. Feedback high energy medivacs if there's nothing to storm. Then keep the high templar back and not sitting in tank range. And uhhh ya work on macro I guess. You macro'd way better than your opponent but could still be improved.