The Protoss Players Thread

[JackhammerIV]

Gradius:
From what I see in the first replay he surprised you with the immortals. A strategy I like myself since everyone likes to go mass stalkers in PvP. When he pushed with the one stalker and the one immortal you should have trapped the immortal on the ramp as well. You had the zealots to handle it. If he started attacking your stalkers then you could easily pull them back. After that it slowly went towards mass stalkers on both sides. So basically the side with more stalkers or immortals has an edge. Personally, if i see a large stalker immortal army i go chargelots, sentries and immortals. The opponent can focus down your immortal but by then the zealots rip through him or he can focus down zealots but by then the immortal ripped through them. Forcefield blocks his retreat. That's just one option to deal with that particular opponent in the replay of course. Basically I didn't like your unit mix vs his unit mix. He slowly edged ahead in stalker count then it went downhill from there.

In the second replay at around the 2:53 mark you had your gateway up 25 game seconds before his gateway finished. But you didn't make a zealot. He went for a late gateway but you didn't punish him for it. If you went zealot, chronoboost it and moved it out you could have gone straight to mineral line and killed 2-3 probes or force all his probes to stop mining to deal with your first zealot. Then same with the first replay with him edgeing ahead in stalker count. I liked your opponent's unit mix better. He went for the usual stalker immortal. Then he saw you were going the same. So he got more zealots and a colossus if you went zealots too. Then when you engaged he just had more zealots than you by a lot. You were forced to deal with them while his stalkers just shot at your stalkers easily.

I won't tell you to abandon your whole 2 gate, core build. But sort of rethink your unit mix in PvP against a stalker, immortal opponent.

AHHHHH, cannot truly win against zerg. I freakin 8 gate and i still dont have zealots out in time for the rush. What the hell am i doing wrong?

Depends what you are talking about. 6 pool rush?? Early push when he has lots of zerglings??? Roach rush??? If you really have a bad time just wall off with forge then gateway, make cannons. Or pylon, gateway, core leaving space for one zealot in a gap. If you can watch your map well, sentries do better at stopping rushes than zealots. Quick forcefield. But if it's an early rush then ya use those wall off options. After that tech to something. High templars do well. Can deal with ground army and mutalisks. Out of energy then morph into archon which also does quite well against ground army or mutalisks. Oh and if you go 8 gates on one base then that's the problem. You use up minerals making production buildings you can't support yet. Crota made a nice video tutorial about minerals and how many production buildings you need to use up all your minerals (if they are fully saturated).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKZBUJIJvAA

He also did a bit about gas. Basically it was down to 800 minerals and 200 gas per game minute for fully saturated base (if i remember right). So something like 2-3 gate, 1 robo or 4 gate can use up all your resources if you keep producing units.

[TheRabidDeer]

There's something seriously wrong with my PvP. I go from having a decent early game lead into randomly losing. Thoughts?

Game 1 looks like a lot of it came down to him having slightly better unit control. You lost a lot of stalkers trying to kill the immortals, when a lot of the time they werent even really a threat. Remember, immortals only have a range of 5, so if they are behind their stalkers they wont be able to hit you unless they micro the stalkers forward which gives you free hits on them.

Also, I am not sure if you do this, but make sure your own immortals are always targeting stalkers and not sentries or zealots (or even other immortals).

Also, about the force field placement (on blistering in particular), you should be quick but dont be so quick that you sacrifice placing a better force field. There were a couple of times that you couldve used it to trap some of his units but didnt. Be sure to use your choke to your advantage too, so dont fight in it yourself. If he pulls back, then let him. You have your expansion up first and have a slight defenders advantage. Use that advantage and if he ever backs off then tech the rest of the way to colossus.

[Corgon]

Depends what you are talking about. 6 pool rush?? Early push when he has lots of zerglings??? Roach rush??? If you really have a bad time just wall off with forge then gateway, make cannons. Or pylon, gateway, core leaving space for one zealot in a gap. If you can watch your map well, sentries do better at stopping rushes than zealots. Quick forcefield. But if it's an early rush then ya use those wall off options. After that tech to something. High templars do well. Can deal with ground army and mutalisks. Out of energy then morph into archon which also does quite well against ground army or mutalisks. Oh and if you go 8 gates on one base then that's the problem. You use up minerals making production buildings you can't support yet. Crota made a nice video tutorial about minerals and how many production buildings you need to use up all your minerals (if they are fully saturated).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKZBUJIJvAA

He also did a bit about gas. Basically it was down to 800 minerals and 200 gas per game minute for fully saturated base (if i remember right). So something like 2-3 gate, 1 robo or 4 gate can use up all your resources if you keep producing units.

I meant 8 gate build, like 8 probes and then build a gateway. ^^ But anyway thanks for the help, I will try the cannon thing, but I don't think that I'll get sentries out in time for that initial 6 pool rush.

[JackhammerIV]

Ah ok. Then 8 gate, pylon, core wall in if you're really worried about a 6 pool rush. keep your zealot on hold position in the gap. Chronoboost a ranged unit when core is done if he pressures ur buildings. Don't charge your zealot to the lings unless there's another zealot to take the place of the one blocking the gap. The canon thing is best used on a place like blistering sands or desert oasis or scrap station. Block off the low ground choke so you can take your natural easier. But be careful of your back door. And you better macro like mad. Expo fast. Tons of probes. Observer him to be sure wat he is teching to and where he has expanded. He might just take advantage of the fact you are walled off to just expand like crazy and beat you in the macro game. Be careful of drops and mutalisks if you wall in with forge and cannons.

[silencbank]

There's something seriously wrong with my PvP. I go from having a decent early game lead into randomly losing. Thoughts?

The first game was just a case of map control winning over army or economy. He had a probe at the southern watch tower that was able to spot the first incoming 2 stalkers, and that probe was there the entire game. The turning point of the game was when you pushed through the center with your stalkers way out in front and your immortals/zealot/sentry mass was lagging behind. He was able to see how far your stalker army was ahead of the rest of them and and was able to snipe a few units out of your bigger army while your army was split up. If you and your opponent seem to have basically the same macro ability, which it seemed was the case this game, the control of your units is how you need to win.

Honestly, I think the reason you lost the second game was because of you going for the gold expansion. I assume you went for the gold because of that edge to your natural expansion that the opponent can exploit, but even if that one side is open to attack, it is closer to your main and easier to travel back and forth to protect both. Imagine if you had your army at the gold and they did a drop in your main. Anytime you go for a gold expansion its riskier, but in that particular game the risk was not worth it at all. Also, the other player had 1 attack and 1 armor upgrade and that did not help your cause as well.

AHHHHH, cannot truly win against zerg. I freakin 8 gate and i still dont have zealots out in time for the rush. What the hell am i doing wrong?

I did a very quick little test on Steppes of War to see if I could get a zealot from an 8gate out before the time of a 6pool zerglings would get there and found out that the zealot would pop out a split second before the zerglings reached the ramp. They both happened at about 2:45 game time. Make 100% sure that your build order is as smooth as possible. I was able to get a zealot out that fast because I threw the pylon asap at 8 supply, made the gate asap, made the zealot asap and chronoboosted it and was constantly making probes the entire time after the gateway was thrown down.

Even though it is very possible to get a zealot out before the 6pool hits you, that is not the way you beat the 6pool or how the 6pool beats you. It is never the first 6 zerglings that kill you off, it is the others. So, do your normal build and wall off with a pylon and gateway at the ramp and put a zealot on hold position as soon as it finishes making. Let those first 6 zerglings through and kill them with your probes. I was able to have 14 probes ready(with the 8pylon 8 gateway build) by the time that the 6 zerglings got into my base. At higher levels people will be able to properly control those zerglings so they wont die to the probes since they are faster but you never have to worry about it below at least platinum. So just attack move into the zerglings, lose a few probes, and you will still be in the economical lead. The 6pool causes people to lose because they get flustered and freak out. Just stay calm, keep your wall blocked off with a zealot and you will be fine.

[Andrew]

Looks like we got nerfed again boys this time it aint just 5 seconds a zlots, Its voids att/flux speed, we now cant feedback corrupter or thors, stalkers cant fungel blink away anoymore...only thing useful we got was some hp and they finally fixxed the gravity glitch with pynix!

[McLovin]

Good thing too, the phoenix glitch was annoying. But seriously, Protoss are getting slaughtered with these patchs. We can still feedback, but it will be hard to determine the amount of damage, and whether fb or storm will be better.

Also, anyone know a good counter to rauder late game, cuz with voids sucking totally now, and ghosts just raping my ht, idk what to do...

[Andrew]

Good thing too, the phoenix glitch was annoying. But seriously, Protoss are getting slaughtered with these patchs. We can still feedback, but it will be hard to determine the amount of damage, and whether fb or storm will be better.

Also, anyone know a good counter to rauder late game, cuz with voids sucking totally now, and ghosts just raping my ht, idk what to do...

NO i mean u cant feedback thors or corrupters they have no energy now! man I loved to see a massthor army and be like FEEDBACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and totally destory it! then add a few storms just to seal the deal Also a good counter is arcons if the storms from HT fails just make arcons also colossus can work but meh personally they die to vikings and late game they usually have vikings.

[IchibanBaka]

should make feedback cooldown =D

[JackhammerIV]

Might as well say should make psionic storms cooldown.:P