Assign Queen to Hatchery

[pure.Wasted]

I would kill for Supply Drop for my Pylons. I eat through Psi so friggin fast with CB.

If you had Supply Drop, you'd spend some of your energy on Supply Drop, which means you'd have less energy for CB, which means you wouldn't eat through your Psi as fast to begin with, which means you wouldn't need Supply --

OH MY GOD THE UNIVERSE IS MELTING.

[DemolitionSquid]

If you had Supply Drop, you'd spend some of your energy on Supply Drop, which means you'd have less energy for CB, which means you wouldn't eat through your Psi as fast to begin with, which means you wouldn't need Supply --

OH MY GOD THE UNIVERSE IS MELTING.

Oh choice, how I miss thee.

Old McBrowder had an SC2, Roaches, Void Rays, Thors. And in that SC2 he had Chrono Boost, Reapers Stalkers Banes. With a CB here and a CB there, here a Boost, there a Boost, everywhere a Chrono Boost...

[Aldrius]

Lets try another analogy (since the unit part is holding you up). Focus now on the map control element. Orbital command can make a cloaked bunker that can then make another cloaked bunker etc...

It's not quite a bunker...

I mean nobody is denying that creep tumor is USEFUL.

But with it's self-replicating nature it doesn't actively COMPETE with spawn larvae. I don't think it necessarily has to, but considering the Queen is the newest thing about the Zerg and considering how much they plugged it when they unveiled the Zerg, you'd think they'd do to make it more than just the equivalent unit for the Terran's Orbital Command and the Protoss' Chrono-Boost... or a 'timing challenge'.

Supply depot isnt a mineral mechanic. Its not supposed to give you more minerals. Its a time mechanic. Thats its saving grace.

Well it does give you minerals. It gives you 100 for the supply, and then whatever minerals an SCV would have gathered while building a depot. Not quite as much as a MULE, but then you get the time saved as well. So it is a mineral mechanic to a certain extent.

[TWD]

Building a single Creep Tumor can pay dividends, even with Creep-dropping Overlords. Overlords can (and will) be killed; Creep Tumors are burrowed. So unless they're actually bring detection along, you get a free spotter and patch of Creep.

Note the key word: "single". Their ability to self-replicate means that they don't really contend for Queen energy. There might be a place in an early-game build where you sacrifice an SL cycle for a Tumor, but it's only something you do once.

Well I'm not saying creep tumors in and of themselves are useless. Simply that they aren't worth it in comparison to the spawn larvae. Let's just say that your queen used her first set of energy to drop a creep tumor. By the time I have a hive it might have extended somewhere up to and maybe past my natural expansion.

Now let's say that you wait until you have a 2nd spare queen and creep drop to make your first creep tumor. You could place the tumor just outside your natural, and you'd be just as well off. Your expansion hatchery will fill in the gaps. There's no real benefit to using your first Queen for anything other than spawn larvae.
________
Medical Marijuana Card

[Aldrius]

Now let's say that you wait until you have a 2nd spare queen and creep drop to make your first creep tumor. You could place the tumor just outside your natural, and you'd be just as well off. There's no real benefit to using your first Queen for anything other than spawn larvae.

There is if you've fast expanded. Otherwise your natural will be more vulnerable.

[ArcherofAiur]

Well I'm not saying creep tumors in and of themselves are useless. Simply that they aren't worth it in comparison to the spawn larvae. Let's just say that your queen used her first set of energy to drop a creep tumor. By the time I have a hive it might have extended somewhere up to and maybe past my natural expansion.

Now let's say that you wait until you have a 2nd spare queen and creep drop to make your first creep tumor. You could place the tumor just outside your natural, and you'd be just as well off. Your expansion hatchery will fill in the gaps. There's no real benefit to using your first Queen for anything other than spawn larvae.

I think watching high level professional play is alittle more insightful then how it looks on paper theorycrafting.

[ArcherofAiur]

I want to point out one other thing. With the recent trends in patching I think it is extremely unlikely that Blizzard would change how Spawn Larva works. We are seeing less and less new abilities and more and more fine tuning and tweaks.

This lends support that if you do want the queen to have more tension than your best option is a Transfusion buff. Not a radical change of the most important Zerg ability.

[Krikkitone]

Unless you build a second line say connecting your base and nat. Or your want a second line going towards your 2nd expansion.


Each Creep Tumor is a self-generating resource like workers are too minerals. Its benefit only increases as time goes on. id call it exponential but weve had enough argueing over that word to make me never want to use it again

Workers are LIMITED to saturation (and production time)... the only limit to a creep tumor is saturating the whole map or killing it (which limits everything in the game.

That one Creep tumor you made can continue to spread over the Whole map... ALL of it... its not just one line and then its done.

Which is why they should Not be able to replicate once, but rather should be able to move once and only cost 5 energy. (or for 25 energy you get 4 to 8, which then get a chance to move.... like a Larva moves, unable to leave Creep... possibly detectable while moving.. but not 'instantly relocating')

Lets try another analogy (since the unit part is holding you up). Focus now on the map control element. Orbital command can make a cloaked bunker that can then make another cloaked bunker etc...

Lets say something different, lets say it was a cloaked missile turret with no missiles
and it could only be placed in a certain range
and only had like 50 hp
and it took ~20-30 sec before it could be placed by the previous one

Would that provide the same type of value as comsat...
No because you would cast it once from your main OC before your 1st,2nd,3rd, or 4th MULE, and then just slowly spread throughout the map



Changing Creep Tumor Like I mentioned above....
they don't replicate once they Move once and are cheap (25 for a cluster of them)
Would make it something that competes (because it is spammable.... I can use 200 energy to drop 8 groups of Creep tumors that can then spread as needed)

and

Changing Transfusion to be better:
50 energy for 300 hp?(which only helps buildings, Ultas, Broodlords more)... Or perhaps Transfused unit/building gets +50% hp (current and max) for 20 sec. as well as heal them 125.

Allowing the Queen to Transfuse herself.

Would make it worth using (particularly if the Queen's move speed is increased)

Increase the Speed of the Queen (in general, don't modify the fact that she moves slower.)

This might mean the Queen would need to be more expensive... but that could justify giving her better hp and attack, making her a better early AA for the Zerg

Spawn Larva itself might need to be better to compensate. (something like less of a delay for the larva to pop.. one could compensate through extended Queen Build time, say 55 sec. to build, Spawn Larva reduced to 30 sec.)

Note: less of a delay would also help in terms of competition, because then you would need multiple Queens to keep a Hatchery 'Fully saturated'.. It would be more when you have energy, than when you have a free Hatchery.

Say give her...0 armor but +3 per upgrade and 300 max hp possibly increase her attack upgrades as well. But increase her cost to something like 250 minerals, maybe boost supply cost to 3. (giving Zerg the most Expensive macro mechanic... compared to Terrans at 150)

Probably give her a Speed upgrade at the Hive.


All of those would be tweaks (some larger than others) but they would make competition for Queen energy important and mostly preserve Spawn Larva itself.

[ArcherofAiur]

Workers are LIMITED to saturation (and production time)... the only limit to a creep tumor is saturating the whole map or killing it (which limits everything in the game.

That one Creep tumor you made can continue to spread over the Whole map... ALL of it... its not just one line and then its done.

Which is why they should Not be able to replicate once, but rather should be able to move once and only cost 5 energy. (or for 25 energy you get 4 to 8, which then get a chance to move.... like a unit/crawler moves)

Your forgeting the most important resource in Starcraft, Time.

One worker can mine all the minerals on a map. Shoudl you only build one worker?

[Aldrius]

If you only NEEDED one worker to mine minerals, then yes.

One creep tumor, while slow, is sufficient for what it is needed for. If you really want to spread it across the WHOLE map, and it's one of those really late-game terrain control battles, then you'll probably build a queen solely dedicated to that task.

I want to point out one other thing. With the recent trends in patching I think it is extremely unlikely that Blizzard would change how Spawn Larva works. We are seeing less and less new abilities and more and more fine tuning and tweaks.

1) You don't know that at all.
2) They just made a bunch of changes to the barracks and add-ons. So clearly they're not afraid to mess around with production numbers and timings.
3) They've hardly changed the Zerg at all. Maybe they're waiting for the Terran and Protoss balance to settle down a bit more before they introduce some new things to them. (Overseer spells for example) I really, really hope this isn't all we get... =\

Not a radical change of the most important Zerg ability.

I'd say there are a lot more important Zerg abilities than this 'timing challenge'... but to each their own.