Assign Queen to Hatchery

[Nicol Bolas]

It absolutly is a game. Its a timing challenge.

No, it isn't; it's a computer task. You get a high score by not thinking and robotically repeating an action ad-nausium.

Calling that a "challenge" is an insult to actual game designers that put real challenge into their games.

[Caliban113]

Well I've only been doing it for a day, and I'm sure your results may vary. For me it has certainly helped. The cooldown on the hatchery is about the same amount of time it takes for the Queen to generate 25 energy. My current goal is to never let that energy get above 40, and I'm doing pretty good so far.

I changed my sound file from 25 to 28 since I was always a little early. I'm using ctrl+r as the hotkey to trigger play in winamp. Then it's just R, click, ctrl+r.

While I would hate the notion of a game coming down to who pressed the macro button more consistently....I really think this is a great tool for training yourself on many of those tasks that win games - I did something very similar early on using a stopwatch. while that does help your timing, this would really train you to keep from missing these very important little tasks. I'm definitely going to try this. Very clever.

[ArcherofAiur]

No, it isn't; it's a computer task. You get a high score by not thinking and robotically repeating an action ad-nausium.

Calling that a "challenge" is an insult to actual game designers that put real challenge into their games.

First off its probably one of the most challenging mechanics in the game. Second it doesnt matter if a computer can do it. It matters if you can do it. You dont like the challenge. Im sorry. Dont play zerg.

[Asfastasican]

Being able to assign queens to hatcheries would dumb the Zerg game too much. You might as well throw in an autocast on Spawn Larva and have them auto-inject every 40 seconds at that point.

I'd support this idea if it had the Queen "deploy" itself or attach itself next to a hatchery, disallowing it to attack or move while babysitting the hatchery. But as others have said in the thread, you can use control groups to help you accomplish the tasks atm.

[Noise]

ArcherofAuir I have 2 questions for you:

1) Do you think that Blizzard should not have included rally mining in SC2?

2) Would you be against SL being able to be auto cast?

[Aldrius]

First off its probably one of the most challenging mechanics in the game. Second it doesnt matter if a computer can do it. It matters if you can do it. You dont like the challenge. Im sorry. Dont play zerg.

That's ridiculous.

"If you don't like tedious apm fests that don't actually involve any strategic decision making... then um... play Protoss or Terran!"

So I guess Zerg in addition to lacking a capital ship, a proper cloaked attacker, an aerial spellcaster, AA at tier 1, an ATA attacker that's actually good at killing something other than capital ships. They also have to go without a strategic macro mechanic now? Why exactly is that again?

Second it doesnt matter if a computer can do it. It matters if you can do it.

It does matter if a computer can do it. If a computer can do it, the task is best left to a computer. A computer couldn't handle MULE, a computer couldn't handle chrono-boost (at least not without messing either up for you), so why should the Zerg be the only one with a macro mechanic better left to a computer?

[TWD]

Being able to assign queens to hatcheries would dumb the Zerg game too much. You might as well throw in an autocast on Spawn Larva and have them auto-inject every 40 seconds at that point.

How does taking one mouse click out of the process "dumb down the game"? You still have to remember to use it, and you still have to specifically tell the Queen to cast the ability. It just requires one less mouse click in order to do so. I really don't think it's a big deal, but it doesn't really matter. I've found that putting the Hatchery and the Queen in the same control group is just as good.

While I would hate the notion of a game coming down to who pressed the macro button more consistently....I really think this is a great tool for training yourself on many of those tasks that win games - I did something very similar early on using a stopwatch. while that does help your timing, this would really train you to keep from missing these very important little tasks. I'm definitely going to try this. Very clever.

Thanks! I'm actually thinking of just making a dedicated timer app. Then you could time more than one thing at once. I thought a good application for this would already exist, but I can't seem to find it. I'm thinking of doing it in C#. It would allow you to add as many timers as you want and set the duration, sound effect, and hotkey for each one. You'd also be able to save/load your configuration.

However, right now the sound file is more than enough. There's just no need for me to time more than one thing at once. Everything else in the game makes a sound when they are finished. You can only hear the spawn larvae when you are looking at it. If I felt a sufficient number of people would use the app, or that it would cause a ruckus then maybe I would look back into it.
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PAXIL ATTORNEYS

[Nicol Bolas]

First off its probably one of the most challenging mechanics in the game.

Again, calling it "challenging" is an insult to actual challenge. It is only challenge in the same way that paying your bills is a challenge: if you don't do it, they shut off your electricity. It's all risk and no thought; it is only difficult because of the risk.

Second it doesnt matter if a computer can do it. It matters if you can do it.

Spawn Larva is the perfect macro mechanic by your definition. It has exactly the same characteristics as manual mining (requires frequent player upkeep at regular intervals, doing it gives you minerals, failing means auto-lose), but it looks like something different. It is exactly the kind of mechanic that you wanted in your very first post on these forums about macro.

The kind a computer could do. And thus the kind a computer should do. If being able to do something a computer is perfectly capable of doing impresses you, then there's nothing more that can be said. I stopped being impressed by someone doing idiotic, braindead tasks when I was 5.

[MattII]

Yeah, but why not just build the units at the hatchery and move them into battle that way?

OLs have transport time, and Nydus Worms are permanent (and thus vulnerable). Of course, Morphalisks also have disadvantages, but that's what makes them a good Macro ability, a reason to use them, and a reason not to use them (most of the time the reason is 'another' ability, but there's no reason it has to be the only one).

The only real advantage it provides over spawn larvae is variability. You can change them into anything you like instantly. Rather than spawn larvae which has all the normal build-times.

Yep, and it has disadvantages that SL doesn't, but that's a good thing if we're talking about replacing SL with an ability that doesn't make the queen practically single-use. SL is an ability to be used just about as often as possible, Mutate Larva is an ability with a definite, if variable, upper limit.

I kinda like it more now to be honest... it'd give spreading the creep another purpose. Getting your mutant larvae to the front lines so they can instantly morph into whatever units you need.

Except that the morphing wasn't instant, or even Warp-In quick, but it was faster than usual (whether by a percentage or a fixed time we'll probably never know), which made it basically useless in an attack force, but would have been useful in the wake of an attack, to replace lost troops.

[Aldrius]

OLs have transport time, and Nydus Worms are permanent (and thus vulnerable).

Er... and what are the Morphalisks using to transport around? They can't exactly fly and are pretty much limited to creep. Therefore you need to use Overlord transport or Nydus Worms, in which case you might as well just morph them there.

The key thing is the variability I'd think. You could stockpile them in the back of your base, or bring them to your front-line very slowly. Particularly in the early game where you have roaches and zerglings which counter very different things.

The mobility of the actual unit would be good more towards the mid-late game. When you have lots of options and lots of bases. They'd be good for defense actually.

Yep, and it has disadvantages that SL doesn't, but that's a good thing if we're talking about replacing SL with an ability that doesn't make the queen practically single-use. SL is an ability to be used just about as often as possible, Mutate Larva is an ability with a definite, if variable, upper limit.

Yeah, the key thing being the supply-limit I believe. It'd kinda regress back into just being spawn larvae as the game progresses. But all three macro mechanics kind of do that anyway.

Except that the morphing wasn't instant, or even Warp-In quick, but it was faster than usual (whether by a percentage or a fixed time we'll probably never know), which made it basically useless in an attack force, but would have been useful in the wake of an attack, to replace lost troops.

Outside of the 50-second spawn time I'm pretty sure it was instantaneous. The spawn larvae took time, but the actual unit morphing was very quick. I believe anyway. I don't know for sure.