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Thread: Current balance discussion(V.7)

  1. #1
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    Default Current balance discussion(V.7)

    Hallo SC2 aficionados. Lets talk about the current SC2 balance with the latest patch.
    I'll start off with what units/buildings/research I think need to be balanced/rebalanced.

    1. Robotics Bay: Currently I see all Protoss players going Robotics Bay 90% of the time in 1v1 and about 70% of the time in 2v2.
    While I don't really know how this can be changed really, I have a couple of rough ideas.
    - Make Psi Storm same as in SC1. Increase damage to 120, increase period of damage to 4 seconds, but keep the current AOE radius.
    or
    - Increase Robotics Bay cost or build time.
    Again, just a few rough ideas, though I'd like to point out that I like the diversity you have now. In SC1 you essentially made a decision to go reavers, than continue to high templars and in small cases there was the reaver/corsair combo. You just didn't have an option to continually produce reavers, except in small cases when you need to open up a highly fortified zerg player.
    I just think that high templars need a bit more incentive now to be a more viable option and get used more.

    2. Mothership: From when it was nerfed to hell and then again to hell, we don't see it being used. This has probably to do with the maps also, as they are mostly small maps from 64 to 128 squares. Most SC1 pro/tournament maps are big/bigger. 192-256 squares. Still though, I feel Motherships are now pretty useless. They are now essentially a high health, slow arbiter.
    With the higher mobility of units, warp-in and similar mechanics there is no place for a slow arbiter. And while it may actually be used once in a while, you'd have to be in an pretty advantageous position in the first place.
    So here are few rough ideas to improve the mothership.
    - Remove the recall ability and bring back the original planet cracker ability. Make the ability have AOE like the mothership's unit model, but make it do less damage, somewhere around 25 damage per second.
    or
    - Remove the recall ability and give her her original time slow ability. Make the AOE smaller than the original was and add 30% reduced attack speed on all units the ability is casted on (including your units).


    3. Reaper: I think Reapers as they are are useless and their supposed role is covered by 3 other units, namely the helion, viking and banshee. They are all better at base raiding and can actually also fight against other units.
    I think they are just too fragile right now, to do anything, except maybe go for a risky rush strategy with them and either do a lot of economic damage or loose the game.
    Here are few rough ideas on how to improve them.
    - Increase their health to 75 and give them different attack.
    Something along these lines: 2x2 damage + 8 vs light, range 4, attack speed fast. Add an upgrade to increase their range to 5 or 6, so they can be more viable later.

    4. Infestor: I think its pretty good right now, though I think it can be improved as the following:
    - Increase its HP to 110(little less than it was, little more than it is now), reduce Fungal Growth duration to 3 seconds, damage taken though should still be over 6 seconds(can't kill units), same as defilers plague/ . Cast range 7.
    Last edited by SlickR; 03-22-2010 at 06:17 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Current balance discussion(V.7)

    Are you sure about that? I did see some videos of Protoss going Psi Storm vs Terran Infantry. Granted, i didn't really seen a lot of good PvT videos.
    But if that happends, i would think it's because it's safer to go with Immortals and Colossus in every situation, except when the enemy goes air. Immortals own Armored units hard, and Colossus owns units that could stop the Immortals, except air units. On top of that, Stalkers are bad vs Light units, and not really effective for cost vs other Armored units, like Roaches and Marauders.

    You can go Council to get Charge vs Marines and Marauders, then Psi Storm, but Hellions are good vs Zealots, and Storm isn't ideal against fast units. Why not go Colossus+Immortal instead?

    I think that the "templar route" is a bit lackluster right now, as it doesn't unlocks anything but HT and DT, and that's two separate buildings now. In BW, Robotics wasn't too good, as Reavers were mostly used to harass only, and Archives unlocked both Templars, and you didn't had another mass-control alternatives. You also needed it to unlock Arbiters, but now requiring it to build one Mothership would make her still more unlikely to be seen.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Current balance discussion(V.7)

    Reavers were so brilliant for support in any matchup but PvT. If you played PvP and you had about equal forces, throw in four reavers plus two shuttles for placement and you could easily overpower the enemy. Not to mention that ANY zerg ground unit except the Ultralisk (and the lurker by 25 or 1 hp, depending on grade levels) died with one shot, often taking a whole pack of zerg down with just one shot. And not just a max of three shots, like an HT. Though I don't want to be glib about the use of HT's, especially their ability to operate from cliffs.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Current balance discussion(V.7)

    They need to do something with the Thor. Right now the unit is pretty useless from my experience. The only time I would ever use it is in a TvT to A move a siege line which by itself is not really that smart to do. I'd rather use those minerals to make battlecruisers instead if I'm gonna make fat/slow units.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Current balance discussion(V.7)

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich_bird View Post
    They need to do something with the Thor. Right now the unit is pretty useless from my experience. The only time I would ever use it is in a TvT to A move a siege line which by itself is not really that smart to do. I'd rather use those minerals to make battlecruisers instead if I'm gonna make fat/slow units.
    I agree. What I don't understand is what they think about the Thor. Shouldn't it be the main GtA unit for the terran? then why is the cannons abiliy GtG? it's stealing the fun from Siege Tanks! They should make it GtA AoE or something!
    About the Mothersihp...
    Well, currently it's a fat slow arbiter with lots of life.
    I'd say don't remove the Arbitrer styled abilities, but add something else to make her interesting instead... or maybe... heck! I don't know, Arbiters weren't as strong with their attacks nor had that much HP, but were a lot more efficient...

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Current balance discussion(V.7)

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich_bird View Post
    They need to do something with the Thor. Right now the unit is pretty useless from my experience. The only time I would ever use it is in a TvT to A move a siege line which by itself is not really that smart to do. I'd rather use those minerals to make battlecruisers instead if I'm gonna make fat/slow units.
    Indeed, your better off spending the resources on teching up to BCs (although games very rarely last that long.) It's just too big of a target, with too little health that an apposing player can easily focus fire down one at a time.

    It's also pretty bad when attack an enemy base, where most of the maps so far only have small ramps that make it so that only one Thor can go up one at a time without support. The best strategy I've seen so far with Thors is using them as a sort of mobile base defense, coupled with some missile turrets they can prevent late game worker attacks.

    But Blizzard really needs to focus on the Thor, a lot of people have been calling out wanting to get rid of it and replace it with the Goliath (which doesn't really make sense to me since the Viking fits into the mobile AA role quite well.) I would like to see Thor defenses significantly increased, perhaps even at the expense of total damage, so it can become a viable unit.
    Last edited by Pursang; 03-22-2010 at 12:38 PM.
    No matter how straight the gate
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    I am the master of my fate
    I am the captain of my soul.
    -Invictus, William Ernest Henley

  7. #7

    Default Re: Current balance discussion(V.7)

    Quote Originally Posted by SlickR View Post
    - Increase Robotics Bay cost or build time.
    I would gut and skin the dev who decided to gimp Protoss even more with that. I should punt you just for suggesting it.

    Protoss go Robo because the other techs aren't nearly as viable. Observers are the best way to scout, Phase Prisms seriously enhance warp-gate builds, Immortals handle those goddamn Roaches, and Colossus shred everything.

    Templar tech is the next most viable, but only because it interacts with warp-gates well, not because Templar are all that great right now.

    Going Starports is usually just asking for trouble outside PvP. Void Rays are fodder for Hydras/Mutas/Corruptors/Marines/Vikings, but at least they do nice damage to anything else. Phoenix only hit air. Carriers are too expensive unless you're massing them in which case you've won anyway, and the Mothership is craptastic now.

    TL;DR: Buff Templar and Stargate, don't nerf Robo. Friggin eh.
    Last edited by DemolitionSquid; 03-22-2010 at 12:49 PM.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Current balance discussion(V.7)

    The Thor has always needed some work. My idea would be to make it a little smaller, a little faster, cut its damage a bit, make it cheaper. For tanking purposes they could give it the activated D Matrix like the BC used to have.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Current balance discussion(V.7)

    Quote Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid View Post
    I would gut and skin the dev who decided to gimp Protoss even more with that. I should punt you just for suggesting it.

    Protoss go Robo because the other techs aren't nearly as viable. Observers are the best way to scout, Phase Prisms seriously enhance warp-gate builds, Immortals handle those goddamn Roaches, and Colossus shred everything.

    Templar tech is the next most viable, but only because it interacts with warp-gates well, not because Templar are all that great right now.

    Going Starports is usually just asking for trouble outside PvP. Void Rays are fodder for Hydras/Mutas/Corruptors/Marines/Vikings, but at least they do nice damage to anything else. Phoenix only hit air. Carriers are too expensive unless you're massing them in which case you've won anyway, and the Mothership is craptastic now.

    TL;DR: Buff Templar and Stargate, don't nerf Robo. Friggin eh.
    Agreed. If I don't go Robo, I usually get my ass raped. Than again, Im not too good of a player.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Current balance discussion(V.7)

    Quote Originally Posted by milo View Post
    The Thor has always needed some work. My idea would be to make it a little smaller, a little faster, cut its damage a bit, make it cheaper. For tanking purposes they could give it the activated D Matrix like the BC used to have.
    It would kinda feel like an immortal then wouldn't it? I still wouldn't really mind it though.

    Some people have been suggesting making it able to load units in. Maybe if you could load a couple of scv in to auto repair?

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