The Terran players thread

[GRUNT]

Hey. You guys have any TvZ advice for me.

I watched that game, but it's quite difficult to give you advice, Grad :[. To be frank, that Zerg player was just really, really good. He could be Platinum material, if he isn't already in that league.

I don't want to sound like I'm belittling you, because that's not my intention - it's a bit like having a game against Bisu and then asking what you could do better after you lose .

Watching that Zerg player, he was just faster, multitasked better, and macroed better :[. There's no shame in losing to him - I really wouldn't be surprised if he was 'Favoured' to win this match, and that he had a significantly higher rank than you.


However, some general comments from me, though :

-You kinda forget about your MULEs in this game .

-I feel that you weren't quite productive enough with your Barracks.

-Early in the game, I felt that after you saw Roffles was going for an expansion, you could have amassed a stronger ground force and pushed out without teching to Factories or Starports. An early-game push of that power might have stopped him.

-And of course, you expanded a little late :[.

Your Siege Tanks were unfortunately caught out of position quite often. You just didn't have enough of a mass of Marines and Marauders to make a fight out of it.

Instead of bringing your tanks with your infantry ball and only sieging up once the fight starts, I find that it's better to siege up your tanks, and then use your infantry ball to harass the Zerg to draw them into your Siege Tanks' range. Of course, like I said, your infantry ball was kinda small .

I also felt that your strategy was somewhat neither here-nor-there in this game. It just needed a little more focus, that's all. If you want to be aggressive, then don't worry about expansions, just fully saturate your main, spam those MULEs, and make sure that you have enough Barracks to spend all your income on. With all those MULEs giving you cash, you may run out of minerals in your main really fast, but the Zerg should be too dead for your lack of expansion to matter .

Getting Vikings to harass worked to an extent, but the Zerg already had Overlord speed by then, and Hydralisks :[.







But let's look at Roffles, because he just played some DAMN solid Zerg.

-Pulled his Overlord away as soon as he saw your Command Center, so you wouldn't know where he spawned.

-Scouting Zerglings under your ramp so that he can go for a heavy economy while having an early-warning system.

-Blew excess minerals on expansions.

-Early +1 missile attack upgrade.


Those are just specific plays from Roffles, but I mean, wow - his multitasking is so much better than mine. And he just has such good gamesense. I noticed that in many of your battles, when he knew that he had a superior force, he wouldn't even look at the fight - he'd just go back to base and macro up.

Ultimately, it's not like you played a bad game, Gradius. It's just the cumulative effect of minor mistakes from you and fewer mistakes from Roffles adding up and eventually giving him the win.

It's very hard to point to a specific moment in the game and go: "aha, THIS is what you should have done", because it might take maphacking to know what we only know now in hindsight . If I were in your shoes, I might have done the same things you did.

Sorry if this is a little rambling, I hope it makes some sense, though .

EDIT: and despite what Sandwich Bird says, I actually think Siege Tanks are a very strong choice against Zerg, specifically if they go Hydra-heavy (which they like to do mid-game). :]

[Odin]

I like what i see well done.

Hope for more stratts to come

[Iceman_jkh]

Ok, I've redone the replay I submitted earlier.

Attached is my current build; IMO it does the following:

- Quickly gets a few units to conduct harassment. (I didnt harass as I wanted to show the B.O. only)
- Quickly establishes a defensive wall
- Keeps timings fairly tight so that minerals/gas are available Just-In-Time
- Synergises current tech with forward tech path (Infantry, Stim + Medivacs using existing Reactors & Factory using existing Techlab)
- Maintains force mobility. (Bunkers to be salvaged after first wave)

Few things I messed up in this replay:
1- Didnt bring my tank inside (I got complacent. Obviously you wouldnt take that risk in a real game)
2- Didnt Pump Marines from the Raxtor (rax+reactor)
3- Left the Supply depot submerged (*rolls eyes*)
4- Built a refinery instead of marines. (LOLWTF!)

Notes: I opted for reapers as they counter just about any tier 1 (light) unit with the bonus of cliff mobility and building decimation. They can also harass like a mofo, and put the opposition on the defensive. Also, this provides for a Fast Expo (of sorts), with early OC and early protection of natural.

Critiques welcome

[Gradius]

Sandwich/Grunt - Excellent advice, thank you. I also felt like I didn't really pick a strategy. Perhaps my money would have been better spent on more infantry instead of tech-switching to tanks. I also wanted to make more Ravens for their HSMs/PDDs. Would have been handy against those Hydras. Yeah that guy was good, #5 in his platinum division, but he was newly placed with 15 wins. Yikes.

Sandwich - I watched your replay. But it seems like infantry is basically the answer to everything now, except in TvT. It's why I wanted to try tanks.

[rdragon87]

I've actually run into a problem with Hydralisks. I'm not really sure how to deal with them, I could really use some advice. I keep getting slightly behind in the economy, and then there are always too many Hydralisks.

[sandwich_bird]

Ok, I've redone the replay I submitted earlier.

Attached is my current build; IMO it does the following:

- Quickly gets a few units to conduct harassment. (I didnt harass as I wanted to show the B.O. only)
- Quickly establishes a defensive wall
- Keeps timings fairly tight so that minerals/gas are available Just-In-Time
- Synergises current tech with forward tech path (Infantry, Stim + Medivacs using existing Reactors & Factory using existing Techlab)
- Maintains force mobility. (Bunkers to be salvaged after first wave)

Few things I messed up in this replay:
1- Didnt bring my tank inside (I got complacent. Obviously you wouldnt take that risk in a real game)
2- Didnt Pump Marines from the Raxtor (rax+reactor)
3- Left the Supply depot submerged (*rolls eyes*)
4- Built a refinery instead of marines. (LOLWTF!)

Notes: I opted for reapers as they counter just about any tier 1 (light) unit with the bonus of cliff mobility and building decimation. They can also harass like a mofo, and put the opposition on the defensive. Also, this provides for a Fast Expo (of sorts), with early OC and early protection of natural.

Critiques welcome

I'll check it out later today.

I've actually run into a problem with Hydralisks. I'm not really sure how to deal with them, I could really use some advice. I keep getting slightly behind in the economy, and then there are always too many Hydralisks.

Marines + stim + medivac = GG hydralisk pretty much every time. It's maybe a problem with your apm and etc instead of your unit types selection and everything. Would need a replay.


Btw guys, stop going infantry in TvT, it's useless. I win 90% of the time against players that go infantry instead of going for tanks and about 70% of the Terran I play against go infantry. Here is what happens to a guy that go infantry against fast tanks. The worst part is that the guy made a bunker -.-. Yeah! That's gonna protect you

[arthas]

I'll check it out later today.



Marines + stim + medivac = GG hydralisk pretty much every time. It's maybe a problem with your apm and etc instead of your unit types selection and everything. Would need a replay.


:

nope,that may work vs roaches but not hydras...and if he puts an extra infestor or two it's pretty much GG not for zerg but for terran...

[sandwich_bird]

nope,that may work vs roaches but not hydras...and if he puts an extra infestor or two it's pretty much GG not for zerg but for terran...

By the time he got infestors you will have ravens with HSM. Also, marines are not that good against roaches, marauders are better so going marines + stim + medivac against roaches is not good. You can check the replay I gave to Gradius a couple of post above. The zerg went roaches and then hydra like most zergs do from my experience. I had a 3m army and got him easy. Ravens were coming out near the end when his infestor was out.

[arthas]

By the time he got infestors you will have ravens with HSM. Also, marines are not that good against roaches, marauders are better so going marines + stim + medivac against roaches is not good. You can check the replay I gave to Gradius a couple of post above. The zerg went roaches and then hydra like most zergs do from my experience. I had a 3m army and got him easy. Ravens were coming out near the end when his infestor was out.

Infestors are tier 2,Seekers are tier 3....And of cource if you get marines and medivacs, marauders will also be present...But that's not my point ! My points is that Hydras have more range and attack much faster so in a battle more hydras will stack together so they will deal at least 3-4 times the dps of roaches if not more,....To take hydras you need siege mode or good micro with Thors...Seekers are later in the game...

[GRUNT]

I'm also a proponent of Siege Tanks vs Hydras.

However, Marauder+Marine+Medivac IS a strong choice against Hydra+Roach. While it's true that Hydras > Marauders and Roaches > Marines, it goes the other way, too. Marauders > Roaches and Marines > Hydras.

Ultimately, I feel that the Terran army is the more cost-effective of the two. However, if the Zerg has a substantially superior economy, he will still be able to defeat you even if his units are less cost-effective, just by virtue of him throwing too many at you.