The Reason Why Lurker Was Removed

[Gt2slurp]

Yeah, give it Dark swarm, i miss that ALOT

Dark swarm was too game changing imo. Zerg was really underpowered late game vs T and P and then dark swarm kick in and scare the shit out of eveything. It was not a support spell, it was and all kill spell usable at will...

[Blazur]

Thoughts?

Ugh, they took it out strictly to limit the amount of units in the game? What a lame reason...especially when so many original Zerg units are brought back already. I guess I have a different philosophy and would rather see more units rather then less.

We all know one of the main reasons they're likely holding back units is to use them in expansions.

[Gifted]

Well, a few points:

1. The way that the game developed the niche that it served happened to be taken by other units. The alternative would be to remove the niche-intruding abilities from the other units to keep it. Roach Burrow I bet people could live without.. but as you remove splash from the ultralisk and Baneling I'm sure you can see a definate lack at that point. It wasn't the "let's split the lurker into three units" it was "these three units have this... what are the options we are faced with".

2. I've said a few times in the forums that this was the reason it was removed. This isn't an I told you so, but rather a "you should have seen that coming as many others here have said the same thing."

3. No matter the case I _DO_ agree with another spellcaster unit within the zerg. Something to draw away from the non-stop "mass and move" mentality that I feel Zerg has right now. In some cases other than the basics of flanking and movement navigation, the most micro I see from the average zerg opponent (Not high level) is "Select Nydus, N, Click, set rally, spam D". Granted, I'm at the mid-level range though and will admit that's part of the reason.

I'm not complaining about the Zerg units, but I can see many of the points about a lack of another unit. Granted, all of the niches that are required of the race are filled rather well by many units, in my opinion too well, as the niches are very well taken care of with the exception of micro-abilities. Another caster would provide this very well IMHO.

[pure.Wasted]

It has detection/changeling/load units it doesn't need more

The Overseer has a single ability that makes use of its mana, and that ability is largely useless. Of course people will still buy them. That doesn't mean they're designed as well as they could be -- or well at all, for that matter.

I'm not complaining about the Zerg units, but I can see many of the points about a lack of another unit. Granted, all of the niches that are required of the race are filled rather well by many units, in my opinion too well, as the niches are very well taken care of with the exception of micro-abilities. Another caster would provide this very well IMHO.

I strongly disagree that "all of the niches that are required of the race are filled rather well." The Zerg are 1) lacking a unit that can deal with fast regeneration in midgame, as both M&M balls and Roaches prove this to be a problem, and 2) lacking in harassment options. When a Terran walls up, there's nothing the Zerg can do until Mutalisks, which are rather easy to stop using the most standard Terran BO in play and a few well placed Turrets. Same vs. Protoss, really.

I might add, both of which are solved by units I've proposed in the past -- the Overnaught and the Hydralisk-as-Cliffalisk, respectively!

[Raisk]

It has detection/changeling/load units it doesn't need more

You can't load units into an Overseer. So its just a detector that can spawn scouts. This compared to the Raven, which is a detector that can spawn turrets, pd drones and launch deadly HS missiles.

I would really like to see a researchable ability on the Overseer, so they'd have a use with your army other than just floating around detecting. Maybe the Razor Swarm from the Queen, although then Razor Swarm + Fungal Growth working together could do some crazy things I'd imagine.

[Maxa]

I strongly disagree that "all of the niches that are required of the race are filled rather well." The Zerg are 1) lacking a unit that can deal with fast regeneration in midgame, as both M&M balls and Roaches prove this to be a problem, and 2) lacking in harassment options. When a Terran walls up, there's nothing the Zerg can do until Mutalisks, which are rather easy to stop using the most standard Terran BO in play and a few well placed Turrets. Same vs. Protoss, really.

For (1), I don't see why hydras aren't a sufficient counter; notice that hydras counter M&M back in SC1, as well. As for (2), I think that roaches are perfectly sufficient for Zerg harassment, the ability of Terrans to turtle in notwithstanding. I'm all for adding more units, but it isn't clear to me that the particular gaps you're suggesting are really there.

As for the absence of lurkers generally, I think it's probably true that there should only be one major cloaking threat per race (dark templar for Protoss and banshees for Terran in SC2, as compared to lurkers, templar and wraiths in SC1). What I wonder, though, is whether the role of the lurker as a unit dealing splash damage (i.e. a counter to mass light units) will really be fulfilled by the new ultralisk. Everyone knows that the ultra was hardly ever used in SC1, and while there likely haven't been enough games played to pass judgment yet, I can say that I've yet to see anyone deploy ultras in the SC2 beta. I guess we'll have to see.

[DemolitionSquid]

Blizzard Quote:
... given the fact that ZvZ is a very dynamic matchup...

MutaRoach is dynamic?

[newcomplex]

Blizzard Quote:
... given the fact that ZvZ is a very dynamic matchup...

MutaRoach is dynamic?

Technically, hes right.

pertaining to or characterized by energy or effective action; vigorously active or forceful; energetic:

Even thought he only unit used for the bulk of 90% of games are roaches, those roachs are usually always moving or energetic.

But technically, one could also say watching leaves fall off a tree is very dynamic entertainment.

[n00bonicPlague]

I'll miss guarding my bridges with a buttload of Lurkers

[SoFool]

I just realize that with the lurker removal, it also kinda makes the hydra a devolution lore wise.

Didn't a lot of sc fans complained the roach being too boring back then? Blizz took their words & now that it has the tunneling skill which seems to kick out the lurker. Sad case.