Protoss= game over?

[newcomplex]

going forge first against terran means u r at a huge tech disadvantage already
and forge first in sc2 seems seemingly hard with all the roaches going on. Seriously, roaches? they're definitely overpowered. regeneration rate, 145 hp, 2 armour + 75min/25gas(this is the part where it's SOOO ridiculous roaches are TOO good and they're cheap).
here's a brief video
showing how RIDICULOUS roaches's regen rate is lol

http://tvpot.daum.net/clip/ClipViewByVid.do?vid=RzUc4uNT-V8$

Roaches don't get regen until well into T2.

Don't get me wrong, I hate roaches, but not because their imba, because their stupid, whos idea was it to give zerg, a race iconic for squishy stuff a 145 1 food 2 armor t1 unit for 75/25?. So stupid.

[Ernesto]

thank you FINALLY someone who talks sense and agrees with me

[KDraconis]

Actually Ernesto IS in fact our resident Korean Canadian Starcrafter.

Waitwaitwait what? D:
What about me? :'(

And Ernesto, I already told you it's not a cheesebuild, it's an all-in build. Cheesebuild would be closer to proxy rax or high-mineral migration.

And yeah, Roach is like the kill-ground-easily unit for Zerg.

And Ernesto, did you see Crota's video on Roach regen? That one's good too.

[imdrunkontea]

phoenix are inf act really good vs mutas, but the problem I see is that the the zerg just switches to mass lings/hydras, and owns the toss army. the phoenix are next to useless without enemy air units to kill, except for overlord and queen harass.

[Ernesto]

pheonix are in fact are NOT good against muta lol
u'll see that 1v1 pheonix vs muta = pheonix wins
but the as number increase to 3v3 6v6 12v12..etc
pheonix cannot win

[imdrunkontea]

I'm not sure how you got that...in every even matchup, the phoenix should win.

[GRUNT]

pheonix are in fact are NOT good against muta lol
u'll see that 1v1 pheonix vs muta = pheonix wins
but the as number increase to 3v3 6v6 12v12..etc
pheonix cannot win

You're actually incorrect there. Even in a 6 vs 6, if both players are microing with focus-fire, the Phoenixes will eat the Mutalisks alive.

I agree that this Terran Cheese rush is too powerful against Protoss, however, I don't think Zerg are.

The key to beating the Zerg is just a change in thinking. If the Zerg goes very Muta-heavy early in the game, it DOES hurt their economy. If you have two bases as Protoss (which you ought to by that time), then it's a simple matter to put a couple of cannons in your main and natural - it shuts down Mutalisk harassment very well.

The Zerg player may respond by taking an extra expansion ,but I've seen this happen time and time again, both in my crappy playing and in higher Platinum-level play - the Protoss pushes out with a combined-arms force which include Zealots, Stalkers, Sentries, and a couple of Phoenixes. This allows the Protoss to effectively combat a Mutalisk army and a Zerg ground force at the same time (since it's not very Phoenix-heavy).

Remember that in BW, Terrans also have to turtle for a time against Mutalisk harass. I find that if the Zerg player over-commits to Mutalisks in SC2, the Protoss player can also turtle with just a couple of cannons, and then bust out of their base with a very powerful force.

The problem with a lot of Protoss players is that they think that the answer to Mutalisks should be a single unit, when really, a mix of Stalkers, Sentries, and Phoenixes is more effective than massing either only Stalkers or Sentries.

Mass Phoenixes will actually slaughter Mutalisks, but you're hamstringing yourself against other enemies too much by doing that (unless you've already planned some kind of Phoenix rush/harass build, in which case, you might actually be able to prevent the Zerg from getting a lot of Mutalisks in the first place).

Roaches should rip though Zealots, that's fine. But when they're also tearing through my Stalkers? That's bullshit.

That's like saying that Hydralisks in BW are overpowered because both Zealots AND Dragoons aren't too effective against them. In BW, the solution to mass Hydra is to just get Psi Storm. In SC2, the solution to mass Roach is to get Immortals.

[arthas]

Phoenixes are good vs mutas,but are you sure it would be 3v3,6v6?? By the time Zerg has 4 muta you will have 1 phoenix,by the time he has 12 you will have 4,and etc...SO it's kinda ridiclious to argue about equal numbers...

[GRUNT]

Phoenixes are good vs mutas,but are you sure it would be 3v3,6v6?? By the time Zerg has 4 muta you will have 1 phoenix,by the time he has 12 you will have 4,and etc...SO it's kinda ridiclious to argue about equal numbers...

The OP was just saying that Phoenixes are not cost-effective against Muta - they are. He specifically used the 3 vs 3 and 6 vs 6 scenarios, saying that Phoenixes would lose, and I'm just pointing out that that's incorrect.

Most of the time, you don't see an equal ratio of Phoenixes to Mutas, but you DO see Phoenixes thrown in to support a core of Stalkers with some Sentries, and they're a very good addition.

[moosh]

what is a cheese rush?