Protoss= game over?

[Ernesto]

I'm a korean user and i saw some korean forum posts there and before i write this it is to be noted that koeran patch is no more different than NA patches

Koeran protoss complaints compilation:
1. Protoss has NO ANSWER against terran cheese rush
terran cheese rush is unfortunately not known aganist many NA people i see
as i saw it rarely used, but once used protoss has 100% loss percentile
a brief description is terran goes fast 2 barracks and mass cheese protoss by bringing all scvs and 10 marines = protoss has no answer
- forge first 2 cannons doesn't work(not to mention going forge first or even considering forge is a huge mineral and techloss and a solutino for that to terran is either push it since they win anyways or they can simply expo due to protoss's huge disadvantage becuz of forge)
- This build was used to not only people in platinum #1 rank in korea, but also to progamers. There're hundreds of replay on how to use it in korean websites AND the scary thing is this is unblockable even if u know it is coming. This is NOT from a random copper league korean user

2. Protoss has NO ANSWER against zerg
roaches=op? of course ANYONE who says roaches r not overpowered
has absolutely no substantial evidence
why? roaches 2 armour, 16 damage per shot, 145 hp
and above all 75 MINERAL 25GAS. Roaches defy their purpose(they were made to be defensive units) and can now be used as super offensive op units

roaches are not all. When zerg go mutalisk, protoss has absolutely no options. Stalkers are mainly for armoued units which mutalisks rn't. Muta micro CAN in fact pwn them not to mention the simple number of mutas that zerg produces is overpowering already. For protoss, it's even hard to expo while zerg can safely increase # of expos due to roach + muta pressure. pheonix is known as uselessnix in korea since their ata is HORRIBLE. Actually a point here to be made is that protoss ata has ABSOLUTELY no substantial attack nonewhatsoever. Pheonix agianst zerg? yah right go to hell void rays? not for mutalisk either. carriers? too expensive and late tech for mutalisk
Hence, unless zerg is a complete n00b, mutalisk = absolute protoss loss

sentries? their natural enemy? sentries don't deserve the title of muta's counter because they're ground units and hav low moving capabilities(they're slow). With muta micro + focus fire, sentries=bye bye what can protoss do against zerg and terran? absolutely NOTHING

Protoss requires a lot of help right now that i personally realize that a lot of north americans players rn't caring enough. Any arguments against this, please feel free to post as it might help or else i could probably counter all of them(or should i say the overpoweredness of terran cheeserush and oped zerg units?)

[DemolitionSquid]

Barring the unlikely legitimacy of a Korean living in Canada with a Hispanic forum alias...

My opinion as an average micro-oriented player: fully agree.

Roaches should rip though Zealots, that's fine. But when they're also tearing through my Stalkers? That's bullshit.

And of all the Protoss air units, they kept the Carrier over the already Shakuran anti-Muta Corsair? What a joke.

[Hav0x]

I'm sorry but I gotta say it. What a stupid QQ thread.

[Ernesto]

@ demolition
..is it that impossible to find a korean living in canada?
not to mention it's a pretty racist comment to find it illegitimate
to have a korean living in canada commenting on hispanic forum alias or whatever

[Gifted]

@Demo: Yeah, Ernesto is actually legit, he is a RL friend of Kdracs. No matter the case your comment is still funny

Ernesto: 2 stalker 2 sentry beats terran cheese strat, but you have to have an entry build pattern made to counter it. You saw it in our 1v1 a few days ago regarding the same mentality as the zealot rush you attempted which I shut down swiftly. Timing JUST BARELY matches it if done right. That's the only response I know to that style of cheese which is partially why I do it.

Regarding mutas, unfortunately the best counter you have is stalker, pheonix provides a good cleanup but they're oddly a support unit in playstyle. People are used to massing them like the corsair and that won't work. In equal mineral/gas cost, even at less numbers, I've found the pheonix to be more cost efficient. The issue is that the massability of the mutalisk makes equal setups hard to achieve for the protoss.

Regarding stalker versus roach... the important thing to mention is that they don't "rip apart" stalkers in a 1 to 1 ratio. The majority of the games that I see involve the roaches out numbering the stalkers... that's the reason they're getting ripped apart, not because roaches are more powerful. It's just that zerg macro is more established with the rush and the choice to use chronos to boost econ early is tempting, this creates an issue as you'll have an unequal army. Throw 2-3 force fields in the mix to screw over their inadequate range and you'll see roaches die fast.

[Gritten]

@ demolition
..is it that impossible to find a korean living in canada?
not to mention it's a pretty racist comment to find it illegitimate
to have a korean living in canada commenting on hispanic forum alias or whatever

Actually Ernesto IS in fact our resident Korean Canadian Starcrafter. None the less, lets keep race comments to a minimum. On topic. I have to somewhat disagree with Ernesto.

1) Roaches are easily countered by immortals. And we're not talking a slight counter, but immortals eat them alive.

2) Phoenix are amazing versus zerg, and it's rare now that I don't have 4-5 of them on the field early game. They're great for overlord harassment, drone popping, queen popping, and when those mutas do come, phoenix make short work of them. Grant you, if you let Zerg pile up 20-30 muta's it's going to be close to game over, but if you can get a good amount of phoenix and sentry support you're laughing. I'm a lowly newb in bronze and have fought off wave after wave of mutas from even silver players. It makes me feel good inside

Gritten

[DemolitionSquid]

Point: not being racist, just found it strange a Korean was using a Hispanic alias.

[Ernesto]

@gritten yah true roaches r useless against immortals
but did u realize that as soon as u made immortals to counter roaches, u just teched up to robotics first? they forced tech u to robotics which gives u disadvantage and pheonix is not a counter to mutalisk at all. They're useful in terms of small harassing, but by the time u get 4-5 pheonix, it's already turning to be late as mass muta timing approaches

@gifted i'm afraid 2 stalkers + 2 sentries cannot block terran cheese rush i wish i could give u the link so i could show it to you. It is true that sentries can block entrance but there's a simple solution for terran where they simply pull bak momentarily until force field disappears. The cheeserush timing is unfrotunately around where u just might not be able to block it. Why would it be known as 100% win case against protoss? how would a guy in a gold league 52nd rise up to platinum league 2nd in 2 days? sentries can probably make few force fields but they're bound to lose mana that eventually that they cannot block it anymore. Not to mention it's still pretty hard since marines r ranged units that can shoot down units like sentries(although it's also ranged, butcan be shot down by marines fast) while scv in the front with 60 HP(crucial part why terran cheese rush works becuz unlike drones and probes they hav 60hp) working as a hp tanker
IF more sentries were coming, that probably means u went assimilator fast enough to gather more gas which gives u less minerals and later timing to either tech.
by the way gifted, i'm at no means to offend you, but this cheese rush is known to have proper counter amongst many other platinum and gold leaguer koreans and i doubt 2 sentries + 2 stalker can block as the timing might be off becuz terran cheese rush is fast and effective. And you might believe and come up with theoretical counters for terran cheese rush counters but i'm sure if u faced it personally, u might feel the need to change your tactic, or see your tactic not work at all. I know for sure u'll disagree with me but i'm not saying this with any substantial arguments. At the moment, due to my limited ability to lie out my arguments straight, u might think that your method might works but I am at no mean to disregard numerous builds and ways that they came up with. But honestly gifted, this build works 100% of the time even if you know it is coming. and i mean 100% of the time even toward the progamers in korea(which means insane micro and years of experience). i'm at no means to disrespect you gifted, but i just simply cannot agree with you. If you see the replays, u'll know the devestating power of it. 3 gate, fast robo, stargate, sentries, stalkers just cannot afford to stop it

[newcomplex]

It actually isn't that bad on maps with a dependable natural. Just forge FE. Its tricky, but not overtly imba atm.

Its kinda hell though on other places. Don't think its possible to win on maps without naturals if I wasn't silver against terran who do this. (I mainly get matched v gold players, so, a lot, still won't move me up T_T). When I do win, its because terran was a blathering retard.

@Squid. Yeah, its a delicate matchup, I play random and right now I have the lowest win with protoss (used to be terran before patcH).

It isn't that rigged though, just hard, nowhere near is rigged as PvT right now. Don't let them get Mutas that fast, the Protoss rely on timing pushes. You need to make them mass roaches when they FE or its a guaranteed lose. PvZ actually shifted away from mass muts, heavy pressure transitioning into immortals isn't defendable without investing heavily into other stuff, delaying muts. By the time they can counter immortals, you can secure a econ advantage, maybe get stalkers in case you see their insistent on muts (you should be able to counter by now), or if their sticking to hydraroach, collosus and push out.

[Ernesto]

going forge first against terran means u r at a huge tech disadvantage already
and forge first in sc2 seems seemingly hard with all the roaches going on. Seriously, roaches? they're definitely overpowered. regeneration rate, 145 hp, 2 armour + 75min/25gas(this is the part where it's SOOO ridiculous roaches are TOO good and they're cheap).
here's a brief video
showing how RIDICULOUS roaches's regen rate is lol

http://tvpot.daum.net/clip/ClipViewByVid.do?vid=RzUc4uNT-V8$