Phoenix use in PvP ?

[Todie]

so i was playing around with teh phoenix vs an AI, vs terran actually, but anyway, analyzing the state of the phoenix got me thinking: they aught to be quite capable in PvP; being lgiht, they dont take extra damage from voidrays n'or stalkers, adn anti gravity can disable many powerful units (does it work on colossi? i havnt tried yet! i geuss it should work?) ... immortals, archons, templars..

the scenario that strikes me as most attractive would be to assault a mineral-line directly with phenix + immortals-in-a-prism + warped in zealots.. theretically, the oponent should have THAT many zelots to overrun that ground support becasue then he'd risk to lack the numbers & firepower to fend of the phoenii.

i know its gas heavy, and coutnered by sentry (but those are equally gas heavy, light and AG-sensitive?) ... mass stalkers would kill it i suppose, but thats where imortals come in? and phenix can hang back & AG a few zelots?


i would LOVE to see a rep of this tried out.

thoughts?

[Kknewkles]

Colossus is Massive, so it won't work on him.
Phoenix can harras expansions for sure, but I don't know if they can really counter Void Rays... yeah, they can be useful against Zealots in theory, because of initial 20 damage to Light units.

[Gifted]

I've found them VERY useful in clusters of 4 or 6. The issue is, you can't treat them like a 1 unit wonder... their niche is too limited as an anti-air. But going around and finding pot shot units and applying air pressure is massive. I've found them VERY useful against Mutalisks as long as they don't have more than 30-40% more than what you have. But overall, they can take out more mutalisks than their own cost.

I've found it VERY useful to worker harrass with 4-5. You can consistently work at getting 2-3 up in the air, and since 2-3 are available, they one shot workers as they hit the air. (Hint: Use "Patrol" as you do it to ensure they stay in range/want to attack)

Other than that, consistently punishing mobile overlords, picking units waiting at a xel'naga tower, queen sniping, nuke-interrupting, hydra punishing, banshee countering... and most importantly.. FAST SCOUTING... I'm finding it more useful every day. I've just had to realize that it's not the corsair, it's not air superiority, it's micro intensive but a MAJOR harassment unit. It's what would happen if you combined the vulture and the mutalisk.. for lack of a better mentality.

I'll see about finding some replays, I've only recently found a way to play it. Is it a mind-blowing unit? Not at all, but instead of saying "It sucks" I'm trying to explore what the issues are, and what CAN be done with it. I'm finding it more satisfying than I originally expected.

[Kknewkles]

Hydra punishing? Only if Phoenix and Hydra numbers are comparable. =)

[Dauntless]

I got owned in PvP by phoenixes in this game: http://dauntless.site50.net/replays/...8-10.SC2Replay

[DemolitionSquid]

Phoenix can either be a waste of resources, or turn the tide of the game. If I get the chance in PvP I usually make a few to pick up opposing Immortals/HT., and pick off the Void rays who chew through my Stalkers.

[Todie]

that was a great replay. thx Dauntless!

[newcomplex]

I'd like to be getting it against Zerg, and I do, but thats probably because I'm silver #12.

It seems really powerful, forces them to go hydra for the most part. A single void ray negates mass roach, while pheonixes prevent a tech swap to mutas while killing overlords. The issue is Hydras, which are absurdly strong against air.

I get it against toss as well, and tech to mothership, completely skipping stalkers. Generally, they end up getting a lot of stalkers, which zealots with charge chew through.

[screw_ball69]

I've had Phoenixes save my ass on multiple occasions against other protoss getting immortals and stalkers off the ground saves alot of my units from my dieing.

[Kknewkles]

A single void ray negates mass roach

HOW? You cannot kill all Roaches with one VR. You cannot kill Warren before they come out in some dangerous numbers. So HOW???