"I suck"

[arthas]

"Just cause I'm paranoid doesn't mean I'm not being followed."

I admit I suck. My macro is horrible.

But Roaches are totally fucking OP.

You will be suprised how fast they fall to marauders even if they are 2 times less then roaches,It's that damn fungal growth that ruins the M&M strategy, basicly you get stim anyway so you are double screwed,But overall roaches are good and strong unit , like them ,although i enjoy playing terran the most....

[newcomplex]

You will be suprised how fast they fall to marauders even if they are 2 times less then roaches,It's that damn fungal growth that ruins the M&M strategy, basicly you get stim anyway so you are double screwed,But overall roaches are good and strong unit , like them ,although i enjoy playing terran the most....

Think hes talking about in PvZ think Squid likes Toss.

[DemolitionSquid]

PSA: I play Protoss.

[newcomplex]

I didn't even have to read all that. You're telling me that your production of marines/lings/roaches/marauders is going to be halted while the protoss player gets a cybernetics core and research the technology, which now takes more than twice as long. Come on? And then with a maximum 3 warp gates by that time you won't already have the pylons down? Wtf...

IF YOU CAN'T DEFEND AGAINST THIS STRATEGY YOU HAVE SOMETHING SERIOUSLY WRONG WITH YOUR GAME.



After the quality of your last post, tl;dr

The strategy is specifically regarding a PvP match up, prior to the latest patch (which I clearly stated, "previous to todays godsend patch).


Protoss are incapable of killing a probe scout unless they use large amounts of workers, or until two zealots come out. So you can park your scout in their base until they do so.

I'm going to explicitly write you a build order for the previous patch. You build a pylon at 9, a warpgate in 13. This is the standard protoss build.

At 15, you build another warp gate and cybernetics core
At 16, you build a assimilator. You send 2-3 probes to use it, and pull them back to minerals. Begin proxy pylon spamming.
At 17, cybernetics core is done, and build another warp gate.
At 18, you can chronoboost warp gate research. The default 30 second research time is cut to 15. You begin to move two zealots towards the enemy.
At 19, your warp gate research is done.
At 20, you now have 5 zealots inside the enemies base.

Your enemy, assuming a traditional build that does not put the defender at a economic disadvantage in deference to a RUSHER (in contrast to every other rush in this game), will be unable to have zealots until "16".

Your probe is obviously not killable. Zealots move slower then probes, in case you weren't aware. The second zealot, chronoboosted, will not come until between 17-18. That leaves ~35 seconds before your forces arrive. Now, your probe simply spams proxy pylons, no more then two at a time. Simply put, two to three zealots do not do enough DPS in order to prevent one of the two from going up. Only by pulling workers can you ensure that the probe is dead. With apt probe micro, you offset your opponent 350 minerals, while losing next to none by canceling your pylons before they are destroyed.

Their is no possible way you can kill that pylon with a traditional build without using all your probes.

Regardless of what your opponent does, even the best toss players cannot down the pylon without incurring significant losses. Unless you want to tell me how to do what is mathematically impossible.

Now, ignoring the pylon, you can match your opponents 5 zealots with five zealots of your own, if you matched 3gate, without the proxy. If this is the case, the opponent will suicide his 5 zealots into your probes. Regardless of micro, he will inevitably kill over between 8-12 of them. That is a rediculous disadvantage, literally setting you back 700 minerals. You lose.

Alternatively, you can build specifically to counter this. In order to ensure that the pylon goes down without using probes, you can get a early gate. This is the worse strategy. A 10 gate will offset you 350 minerals behind the opponent, not even doing anything. The opponent, at this point, has invested, literally, 50 minerals into this strategy.

You can choose to fight them off. In order to counter a 5 zealot rush without losing almost all your probes, you can go 4gate. Going 4gate causes your opponent to be at a 1:30 minute tech advantage over you, as well as still getting a couple probes.

Finally, you can go photon canons.. Great, you spent 450 minerals on static defense. I think I won't build a pylon, send my scout back, and fast expand.

The result is that the only plausible strategy is proxy pylon. Actually, their is another counter, and that is to proxy 2 gates outside their base, even cheesier.

here are pro-gamers in tournament finals using this strategy.

http://playxp.com/sc2/xpt/vod/view.p...cle_id=1922551
http://playxp.com/sc2/xpt/vod/view.p...cle_id=1922553

As you can clearly see, their are no other viable strategies other then mirroring 3gate-proxy pylon. These were taken from the finals of korean progaming tournaments, and are not a one time cheese. Prior to the recent patch, 99% of high level protoss games ended in the form of 3 gate proxy pylon rush. My original post was posted before the recent patch.

[Extranjero]

Previous to todays godsend patch, the opponent would micro a probe into your base and keep it alive for a while. Right before you get zealots up, he makes two pylons, while continuing to micro. If he did this properly, it is literally impossible to take down all the pylons (he cancels the pylons as their about to die). He continues to micro the probe around. He then attacks with 2 zealots in the front+3 zealots warped right behind you. Unless you did the same thing to him, or rushed him with a proxy twogate, the game is over.

This isn't necessarily a problem in lower leagues because most players lack the micro to keep the probe alive, while maintaining the macro to tech at 100% optimality. Once done however, their is NO counter for the build. NONE. Depending on your skill level, 5 zealots+3 every 10 seconds will halt mineral production while he expands, OR, just win if your not good. Only two builds can win a defensive war, forgecannons+2gate or 4gate. If he sees you pursueing either, he simply sacrifices 5 zealots to kill some probes, while you've wasted ~350 gold and behind in tech.

It is literally impossible to kill the probe unless you take a crippling amount of workers off for extend time, or when you have 3 zealots, in which case 3 zealots should be in the process of warping in your base.

QFT.

Nearly every PvP looked like this and I only saw like 3 people actually successfully defend the initial warp-ins and kill the pylons. And you could argue in those cases that they were able to do so because of errors on the part of the person doing the warp-in strategy. It was lame and broken and is now fixed.

[sandwich_bird]

I don't see any future for this discussion. Sure, some people will have unfounded complaints about the game but don't generalize. Also, simply asking the people concerned to silence themselves will not change anything.

Thread closed.