What happened to the innovation?

[ArcherofAiur]

I said nothing about removing core gameplay mechanics. Base building, UI, macro would all still be there. If we removed Chrono Boost, MULES, and Spawn Larva it wouldn't have an impact on the quality of the game.

Yes it would for reasons stated three years ago when we first realized that macro mechanics were nessisary. Weren't you there?

They are extras, and they are broken, and I would not miss them, nor would 99% of the players.

BS statistic is BS.

What I would miss is the Colossus, or the Nydus Network, or the Raven, because they fill important roles needed for the game to be balanced and function.

Spawn larva fills far more of an important role than say the colossus.

[SlickR]

Sorry to hear that you don't like SC2. Oh well there are other RTS games out there suited to your needs, try out C&C tiberium wars or Napoleon total war.

You should just forget Starcraft 2 even exists, but if you can't you can still find comfort in the single player campaign.

SC2 is just whats supposed to be, sequel to SC1 and nothing more and nothing less.

I personally don't judge a game for its gimmicks and "bonus crap", but for how deep and varied its strategies are. Currently I'm very positive about SC2 and most of the people seem to share my opinion. I think that when beta finishes it will be enough polished, balanced and fine-tuned that the strategic depth is going to be huge.

Again, why would I want some stupid gimmick or "new feature" that does not add depth to the play? - I would just rather have something that works great and adds depth to my gameplay.

[Hammy]

You say that there will be UMS maps recreating Sc:BW in SC2 as though that were enough.
I think that ultimately, despite what Blizzard says (of course they aren't going to say they threw in a 3d engine and redid the same game), SC:BW needed an update. New UI, more spectator friendly, more "attractive" (understand: shiny), to get complete newbies interested etc...
The BW community is strong, but not nearly strong enough, and SC:BW was unproductive to Blizzard anyways.
Making a completely different game and taking the risk of dividing the community yet again doesn't seem to be a good idea. I think blizzard chose a safe route by adding enough changes to make the game play differently, while keeping the core structure (that so many people grew up loving).

I disagree with you when you say that SC2 isn't innovative enough though. At a first glance, SC2 seems to be BETTER than SC:BW to me. I can't comment on depth though, since only time will tell, but I've been loving the options every race has so far, and the "hard counter" system is decent in most cases.
I've got some concerns, but NONE of them are in regard to stuff that looks too much like SC:BW.

Are you saying that you would like change just for the sake of change? Or do you think that stuff that stayed the same would be better of differently (I mean specific examples)?

The goal isn't to make something new, it's to make something great.

[DemolitionSquid]

Sorry to hear that you don't like SC2. Oh well there are other RTS games out there suited to your needs, try out C&C tiberium wars or Napoleon total war.

You should just forget Starcraft 2 even exists, but if you can't you can still find comfort in the single player campaign.

SC2 is just whats supposed to be, sequel to SC1 and nothing more and nothing less.

I personally don't judge a game for its gimmicks and "bonus crap", but for how deep and varied its strategies are. Currently I'm very positive about SC2 and most of the people seem to share my opinion. I think that when beta finishes it will be enough polished, balanced and fine-tuned that the strategic depth is going to be huge.

Again, why would I want some stupid gimmick or "new feature" that does not add depth to the play? - I would just rather have something that works great and adds depth to my gameplay.

For fuck's sake SlickR, why can't you leave and just STAY gone? God dammit.

Yes it would for reasons stated three years ago when we first realized that macro mechanics were necessary. Weren't you there?

The macro mechanics were NOT necessary. You only thought they were because things like better UI, MBS and auto-mine were included and you thought macro was going to suffer based on no concrete data whatsoever. And now, surprise, you and TL's bitching has created a monster. Good job.

BS statistic is BS.

Creative license. Better than intellectual bankruptcy.

Spawn larva fills far more of an important role than say the colossus.

No, it really doesn't. Not in any balancing/gameplay sense.

@ Hammy

SC2 is definitely better than SC1. For its better b.net, better competitive system/leagues, better campaign structure, better editor. For its raising the UI bar to the level expected of an RTS in 2010.

But not for its creativity.

New doesn't always mean better. But it can certainly help.

[ManjiSanji]

It would be nice for every race to have their "new thing," the innovative new feature that makes the whole race feel new again, like the Protoss Warp-In mechanic. I was hoping the Zerg would be the most full of these kinds of features, but they really feel empty.

I was hoping the Nydus Worm would be a neat embodiment of this, but now it just sorta feels like a modification of Warp-In, but maybe that's just me.

I'd say Protoss, as a whole, feel the most new and fun, and I just wish the other races went that direction, particularly the Zerg.

[Nicol Bolas]

Go on, find me more than 5 possible and realistic ways (your ideas or anyone else ideas) we could drastically alter the RTS experience while still having a fun game that would generate a lot of profits in today's world.

Give me a SC2-style RTS engine, a team of 10, and 3 years to experiment, and I will.

Simply believing that something is impossible is the easiest and surest way to fail.

Now evaluate the possibility of actually making a sequel to Starcraft 1(and so limiting yourself to the unclear boundaries imposed by making a successor)

Again, WC3. Not limited by the "unclear boundaries imposed by making a successor." It seems to have worked out OK.

I believe that innovation by altering the crust that surrounds the core of the experience is the only smart and possible way to go in respect to the goal desired by the action of creating a product. This goal is obviously to make something fun that will (and not would) sell.

Your rhetoric sounds dangerously like that of Activision-Blizzard CEO Bobby Kotick.

Spawn larva fills far more of an important role than say the colossus.

It'd fill the exact same role if it were auto-cast. And it would require zero APM or attention. And it would be exactly as effective in gameplay as it is now.

The only difference is that it would require zero APM and attention. Hence the term, "APM sink."

[Pandonetho]

Give me a SC2-style RTS engine, a team of 10, and 3 years to experiment, and I will.

Pretty bold statement there. And what exactly would you do to innovate a profitable RTS?

[Islandsnake]

I guess you'd have to ask him after 3 years ;d

[Nicol Bolas]

Pretty bold statement there. And what exactly would you do to innovate a profitable RTS?

I'm pretty sure I could find something with 62,000+ man hours behind me.

[Caliban113]

Sorry to hear that you don't like SC2. Oh well there are other RTS games out there suited to your needs, try out C&C tiberium wars or Napoleon total war.

You should just forget Starcraft 2 even exists, but if you can't you can still find comfort in the single player campaign.

SC2 is just whats supposed to be, sequel to SC1 and nothing more and nothing less.

I personally don't judge a game for its gimmicks and "bonus crap", but for how deep and varied its strategies are. Currently I'm very positive about SC2 and most of the people seem to share my opinion. I think that when beta finishes it will be enough polished, balanced and fine-tuned that the strategic depth is going to be huge.

Again, why would I want some stupid gimmick or "new feature" that does not add depth to the play? - I would just rather have something that works great and adds depth to my gameplay.

(Growling) "Yyyyoouuuuuuuuu...."

SlickR, please tell me you have a beta key, and please tell me you have a stream that I can watch.....and please let me watch that stream as you play Archer....I need a good laugh.