Minning !

[Vyk]

My question was how many worker I need per spot.

I did my homework and i found that 2 worker per mineral is the optimal number.
so 16 wokers (two row if you select them). And + 6 for gas, sor a total of 22w This is ain't new...


What a found interesting during my mining test was:

on 8 mineral spot:
8w = 330m/min 40% saturated
16w = 660m/min 80% saturated
24w = 800m/min 100% saturated
30w = 800m/min 100% saturated

Note that 100% here is not optimal.

From 16w to 24w you pay 500m (400 for workers and 100 for supply) fit give + 130 income instead of 330 on a non saturated spot.
so it take a bit less then 4min to pay itself.. not very hot :S

Frome the start you can reach 16workers with:

Protoss in 2min 26sec (pertty accurate its my main race) (Perfect chronoboosted)
Terran in 2min 50sec (aproxymatly could be a bit faster)
Zerg in 2min 24 sec (aproxymatly could be a bit faster)

I think terran are late mainly cause one scv not mining while builing the supply and also Zerg can build more drone at the same time. Protoss x2 chorno boost afther first pilon. I guess mule cover that unbalance later since they harvest 300 g (i think) and also NOT saturating at all wich mean one scv can harvest the same mineral at the same time.

One expansion cost 1275 mineral. (Nexus 400m +16 workers 800m + 6 supply 75m (12,5 mineral per 1 food)) wich gives + 660m/min. Note that it take 2 min to an expansion to pay himself once its fully operational.

The cost in time for this can varry but has a protoss im getting that 8 extra workers while my expand is building and then i move them to my expend once it finish and build 4 probes in my main nexus (setting rally to the expend) and 4 in my new nexus using chrono on both. This takes only 2min 23 sec ( 143 sec = 100sec for nexus and 8 chrono boosted probes than 43 sec for 2x 4 chrono boosted probes ) to double the income from 660 m per minute to 1320 per minute.

Macro tips: Nice to be done once you send your first army, you setup your nexus and move your amry. While moving start saturating your main with 8 workers and dont forget chrono. In the fight watch for the nexus icon on your left. you will need about 18 action to setup 8 probes 2 raly point and 2 chrono boost, so its about 4 seconds, just backup your army a bit then quickly re engange after that 4 seconds macro.

so the choice is there:
paying 460m for a + 130 income (start paying after 4 min)
paying 1250m for a + 660 income (start paying after 3min 23, or less)

I think saturating over 16 workers is only good if you are about to expand.

What you guys think ?
Anyone have done this or other kind on economical test ?

[REF]

So 24 is the key - throwing anymore workers on gives no additional benefit right?

A key point for Terran is that although they are the slowest to get full saturation, they can call down mules which can harvest without delay even when a mineral field is fully saturated thus it's maximum minerals/m is the highest of all three (all other things being equal)

[Vyk]

NO 16w on mineral is the key for a total of 22workers with gas.

24 is not bad either. Has I tested you still get a bit more mineral pass 16 workers on mineral but not that much in fact throwing +6 extra workers (total of 28) on top of that will fully saturate the spot and only give you only 16% + mineral instead of 33% more mineral. so you better put the 6 more worker on another spot.


I'm not a terran player but i think mule harvest 286m for 30 sec. total (seams like a scan cost 286mineral to me lol). I see mule has a bonus and yes just calling down one mule can lagrgely cover the terran slow start of reaching the 16 workers count at the begening.

[Norfindel]

But that means that unless you can fast expand, you would want to put more workers on your main, then move them out. 100% saturation is better than 80%, right?

[Hammy]

But that means that unless you can fast expand, you would want to put more workers on your main, then move them out. 100% saturation is better than 80%, right?

No becaue he get diminishing returns. Which means that going from 80% to 100% will cost you a LOT more than going from 60% to 80%. For the cost of those extra workers you could expand+OC (+8SCV=400mins+100mins supply; CC=400mins -100 for supply +150 for OC), which is a better choice if you have the chance to expand. A mule will be getting you tons of minerals 90s after all of this is done, and then you can infest those on populating your new mineral field by double pumping SCVs.

Of course, in most cases, you can't invest so much in economy at that point, so you invest in small increments by building SCVs, which don't give that much return, but when you can finally build your CC (a bit later) you can maynard to your expansion and get a great boost at that point.

This is just for T though. As Zerg I think that 16 on mins is good and when you expand you can produce a nice group of drones with your first double injection (if the game allows). If you aren't expanding, larvae might be better used on units if you've already reached 16-18 drones on minerals (I try to have more than 16 rather than fewer because some will be consumed by new tech buildings and I don't always remember to rebuild them).

[REF]

from just a macro standpoint I get what you're saying about the deminishing returns, although pumping 8 scvs instead of building a CC could save you the game if your opponet rushes.

This makes me think of the risk/return for the 14cc / 14 nexus strats on bw1. If your opponet scouts early enough and reacts by being agressive early, you're screwed. You can tie this into the decision to go 8 scvs or saving for cc. The 8 scvs are used to stimulate your economy in the short run and if you're encouring a rush getting the 8scvs instead of cc is most definately not in any form deminishing returns, it gives added value

[HavoK]

I thought a Full saturation of minerals was 2 per patch being 16 total and 3 per gas totaling 22 workers

[Nicol Bolas]

I thought a Full saturation of minerals was 2 per patch being 16 total and 3 per gas totaling 22 workers

People think that, but it's not true. You still gain more minerals per worker, just not nearly as much as the first 2 per patch gets you.

[Hammy]

from just a macro standpoint I get what you're saying about the deminishing returns, although pumping 8 scvs instead of building a CC could save you the game if your opponet rushes.

This makes me think of the risk/return for the 14cc / 14 nexus strats on bw1. If your opponet scouts early enough and reacts by being agressive early, you're screwed. You can tie this into the decision to go 8 scvs or saving for cc. The 8 scvs are used to stimulate your economy in the short run and if you're encouring a rush getting the 8scvs instead of cc is most definately not in any form deminishing returns, it gives added value

Except that 21CC is a much more standard, and hence "balanced" build (I say balanced, as in your econ/tech/army aren't suffering too much). The 14CC is the "risky" build. (this is about SC1 since you mentionned that)
On the other hand, in SC2, getting a CC when you have 16 workers on minerals is the standard, but investing those 400mins in a rax, a few SCVs and more army will lead up to a timing attack or an all-in strategy. You'll be really far behind if your opponent played his cards right and the strategy fails there. Especially that the terrans have the option of expanding at vulnerable moments if they build CC in base and upgrade to PF on site.

Before expanding, you always have to check your opponent for all-in stuff though.

On a side note, I noticed that as a Zerg player, the Terran expansion timing is one of the first timings I got down because SCV production is so linear. T is the race that gives me most trouble, but some wins can be completely bashing because their expansion rate is "standard" for now, and they don't scout enough (especially this ). It's much more about the timings against T than against P imo.