Should Changelings Morph Into Something Else?

[Islandsnake]

I get Overseers for changeling more often than detection, when I need detection I upgrade speed for my already in use overseer o.0


Changeling is the best scouting unit in the game, unlike a worker unit it doesn't just instantly dissapear if you send it towards a base. And most of the time you can drop it into there base and see EVERYTHING they have and even keep it clumped up with there army.

Protoss needs to build a very expensive building and then build a observer instead of important units to get the same kinda info.

Terran has scan and Zerg has changeling I don't see the issue here o.0


Not to mention that your scouting overlord is usually the one you turn into a overseer, its already next to there base anyway its seriously awesome.

Im all for giving the overseer another spell, but there already a amazing unit.

[Aldrius]

And... did i say something different??? You get overseer for the detection. Period. The changeling (CH) comes with, as you said. If they remove CH, will overseer turn useless???? No.

No, but you can say that about A LOT of spells. If you remove the nuke is the Ghost suddenly useless? No. If you remove Infested Terrans is the Infestor suddenly useless? No.

Doesn't mean those spells aren't useful.

The fact the CH comes with the overseer feels more like a forced... lets say...spell, more than a really useful one.

It doesn't really feel forced at all. It's an easy to use spell with a lot of really practical applications. And believe me, I've seen it proven itself useful MANY, MANY times.

The fact that if KILLING THE CHANGELING MEANS SQUAT, then you answered yourself about the usefulness or relevance of this unit, or spell or whatever u want to call it...

That just means it's a low-risk spell. You can get a TON of info with a changeling, and if it dies after it's seen that proxy stargate tech or after just barely seeing that hidden ghost academy, then you're no worse off. That doesn't mean the unit isn't useful!

Overseer need to justify its existence, to justify why Overlord was split into 2 units, and if almost nobody uses the CH, then that is not the way to do it.

Good, then it's proven itself useful because plenty of people use the changeling.

Really??? Where did u get this from???? Id like to know. You are saying that the SC1 guardian, scout, and queen are bad units???? Damn you are rewritting history here man.

Uh, no he isn't. Some players (Jaedong mainly) can make okay use of Queens (mainly for ensnare), the Guardian can do okay once in a while, but in general these units aren't very good.

Why do you keep comparing a changeling to a guardian????? I dont understand that. Changeling is almost a spell. It cost energy. Guardian is... Hell I wont explain that to you.

Because you compared it to the changeling first. That one time a Guardian push failed is a MUCH greater lost than the supposed large number of times the Changeling has failed.

Anyway, for the record: the changeling rules.

[PsiWarp]

Agreed, even against an aware opponent, the Changeling can very often encompass a base before dying off to a worker poke or tank blast.


-Psi

[Nicol Bolas]

Overseer need to justify its existence, to justify why Overlord was split into 2 units, and if almost nobody uses the CH, then that is not the way to do it.

First of all, the Overseer justifies its existence by allowing the Zerg to be weak to detection. It removes detection from Overlords, which allows for something you would never see in SC1 without massive Overlord harassment happening first.

So the existence of Overseers is already justified by needing to make detection something that is valuable for the Zerg, rather than something that just happens.

The Changeling is simply a way to make Overseers more useful.

Also, I'm afraid I'm going to need testimony from Zerg players actually in the beta before I accept your claim that Changelings are never used.

You are saying that the SC1 guardian, scout, and queen are bad units???? Damn you are rewritting history here man.

Really? When was the last time you saw Bisu, Stork, Kal, etc go for Scouts? When was the last time you saw Jaedong, Calm, or Effort go for Queens?

You might be able to point to one professional game in a thousand where these units get used, if that. Guardians are a bit more popular, but even then are very rare. And Guardian pushes tend to fail more than they succeed even when they are used.

Why do you keep comparing a changeling to a guardian?????

You made the claim that SC doesn't have useless units, and thus if the Changeling is a useless unit, it doesn't belong in SC2. One of the examples I used to refute this claim was Guardians, which have a low success rate and are rarely used.

My point is that, even if everything you say about the uselessness of Changelings is true, they're still more useful than Guardians, SC1 Queens, or Scouts due to having virtually no downside risk for trying to use them. You will not lose a game because your Changeling failed to get good intel.

[flak4321]

Lots of thoughtful posts here. I reserved my vote because I have only seen the changeling used only once, and it was killed easily/dissapeared in about 10 seconds. I think the victim player sacrificed a unit to a larger units splash damage to make the kill (he was Protoss, I think). It's been awhile though, and in the replay commentated by Crota, Crota wasn't entirely sure what happened to it either.

[Caliban113]

Can it be used like a Zergling/Zealot bomb?

[Hammy]

It don't affects anybody else, you are the only one in here or any forum complaining about that. You must really have nothing else to complain about. Deal with it.

It isn't because noone complains that it doesn't bother anyone .
I don't really mind, it just makes you sound like a child all worked up. Maybe you should try all caps next time?

I rarely get OS for the changeling, but that's usually because I don't think of it, and I should (I usually just get them for detection).
But you know what? The changeling is awesome, and you aren't losing anything by using that spell.
Here's an example: I make overlords for control, not as scouts. But they're actually decent scouts! So sometimes I'll use them to scout!

Well the OS can scout like an OL, but it's an even better scout because it's got the changeling, and you don't risk losing your control when you scout with a changeling.

A bunch of units come with added functionalities that aren't core to the unit, but are actually a good boost in certain circumstances.

[mr. peasant]

It isn't because noone complains that it doesn't bother anyone .
I don't really mind, it just makes you sound like a child all worked up. Maybe you should try all caps next time?

I rarely get OS for the changeling, but that's usually because I don't think of it, and I should (I usually just get them for detection).
But you know what? The changeling is awesome, and you aren't losing anything by using that spell.
Here's an example: I make overlords for control, not as scouts. But they're actually decent scouts! So sometimes I'll use them to scout!

Well the OS can scout like an OL, but it's an even better scout because it's got the changeling, and you don't risk losing your control when you scout with a changeling.

A bunch of units come with added functionalities that aren't core to the unit, but are actually a good boost in certain circumstances.

That's only true in the current version because the Overseer doesn't have any other abilities. Should it gain other abilities (which seems likely seeing as this had been the case all throughout development), it will start to cost since that energy could have been used on something else.

To be honest, my beef with the current Changeling is that it is ultimately not very interesting to see used. There's only one real situation where you'd use it over an Overlord or Overseer; namely to scout a base in the presence of anti-air but the absence of detectors and player attention. That's awfully specific to me.

[Hammy]

That's only true in the current version because the Overseer doesn't have any other abilities. Should it gain other abilities (which seems likely seeing as this had been the case all throughout development), it will start to cost since that energy could have been used on something else.

Absolutely, and actually I'm totally FOR giving the OS another ability. It's usually more interesting to have choices. Though even if it stays this way it's ok to me.

To be honest, my beef with the current Changeling is that it is ultimately not very interesting to see used. There's only one real situation where you'd use it over an Overlord or Overseer; namely to scout a base in the presence of anti-air but the absence of detectors and player attention. That's awfully specific to me.

Well actually technically you would always use it over an OL or OS since you don't lose anything by using it. You can either use both, or use only the changeling. Using only OL/OS just makes less sense (unless you need to get vision from cliff of course, which actually happens really often with worms).

Nevertheless, I'm all FOR giving the changeling some sort of an ability to make it more interesting.

[LegacyofTerra]

This. Nobody gets the overseer for the changeling. Which is kind of weird, since every unit in starcraft is necesary because all its abilities are somehow useful. Changeling just feels like it could be erased from the game, and nobody would notice.

So changeling does not needs to be improved, it needs to be removed. Overseer needs to justify its existence. It needs to justify with SC1 overlord was separated into 2 units, instead of keeping one unit and making detection an upgrade.

BS. There is not a single Zerg game where I haven't used the changeling. It's bloody awesome as a scouting tool and lasts for a long-long time if not detected.