Should Changelings Morph Into Something Else?

[MattII]

I've thought for a long time that what the Zerg really need is a new version of Parasite, except that instead of gaining the sight of an enemy unit in exchange for being obvious, the parasite is cloaked, but only gets like 3 sight range, but can be detonated (20 damage) if need be.

[Jabber Wookie]

A worker is also more noticable when it's away from minerals.

I completely disagree. If anything, your tier 1 units are typically bunched together and it is incredibly noticeable when one wanders into your base and walks around your mineral line to scout...

On the other hand, workers are always running all over the place whether they are transferring to an expansion, building a structure, or simply scouting somewhere. I think worker changelings would be much more valuable than tier 1 units that player may never even build (thus making it incredibly obvious it's a changeling if you can just say, "Oh wait, i never even built any zerglings")

[Nicol Bolas]

Nobody gets the overseer for the changeling.

I do. It's my primary source of scouting the enemy.

Which is kind of weird, since every unit in starcraft is necesary because all its abilities are somehow useful.

Oh please. Scouts. Queens. Given the number of times I've seen pro-Zerg players go for Guardians and fail, I'd even list them.

I think worker changelings would be much more valuable than tier 1 units that player may never even build

I don't see how it matters. Unless they actively saw your Overseer drop a Changeling into the back end of your base, odds are it'll take a while before they even notice him. You only need about 5-10 seconds to see everything there is in a base; anything beyond that is extra.

[MattII]

I completely disagree. If anything, your tier 1 units are typically bunched together and it is incredibly noticeable when one wanders into your base and walks around your mineral line to scout...

Except that a good player would never order them to do that anyway, the things they will try to scout are the locations of the defences, and maybe the types of units they currently have. Dealing with the mineral line can be left to the attack force.

On the other hand, workers are always running all over the place whether they are transferring to an expansion, building a structure, or simply scouting somewhere. I think worker changelings would be much more valuable than tier 1 units that player may never even build (thus making it incredibly obvious it's a changeling if you can just say, "Oh wait, i never even built any zerglings")

Never building Marines/Zerglings/Zealots? You've just set yourself up to lose.

[Jabber Wookie]

I don't see how it matters. Unless they actively saw your Overseer drop a Changeling into the back end of your base, odds are it'll take a while before they even notice him. You only need about 5-10 seconds to see everything there is in a base; anything beyond that is extra.

Not true. It only takes 5 seconds to scout the main base, but you may want to send your changeling over to their natural, and I think workers would have a much better chance of passing the units that are often on the ramp entrance without being noticed.

Except that a good player would never order them to do that anyway, the things they will try to scout are the locations of the defences, and maybe the types of units they currently have. Dealing with the mineral line can be left to the attack force.

I'm pretty sure good pros ALWAYS scout the main base including areas close to the mineral line; I'm not saying they are scouting THE mineral line, but there are many important structures to locate near it. In fact, I'm pretty sure you'd want to scout a spire even if the player doesn't currently have mutas, which would require going behind the mineral line in most cases....

Never building Marines/Zerglings/Zealots? You've just set yourself up to lose.

Umm it's not common, and I'm not good enough to attempt a build without them, but I've definitely seen Zerg players win in beta with mass roaches and hydras for support (no lings)

And many many pros tech switch with Terran and stop producing marines, so considering changelings come late in the game, if they're marines have all been killed in one of the initial battles, they'll easily recognize one when it wanders around their base

[Nicol Bolas]

Not true. It only takes 5 seconds to scout the main base, but you may want to send your changeling over to their natural, and I think workers would have a much better chance of passing the units that are often on the ramp entrance without being noticed.

Changelings aren't exactly expensive or anything. It's not like it would be hard to swing around and drop another.

[Jabber Wookie]

Changelings aren't exactly expensive or anything. It's not like it would be hard to swing around and drop another.

That's true, but I just feel having them morph into workers makes more sense. Another thing I considered (and I know this is a minute problem), changelings can travel at different speeds depending on which race your opponent chooses. A zergling changeling is much quicker than a marine and therefore a more powerful scout, whereas workers all travel the same speed.

This is just another thing I noticed, and I suppose racial differences including things like this could just make each race more unique, but I feel like worker changelings make more sense imo.

[KadajSouba]

I do. It's my primary source of scouting the enemy.

Oh please. Scouts. Queens. Given the number of times I've seen pro-Zerg players go for Guardians and fail, I'd even list them.

Congratulations. U r the 5th player over 10000 that use the changeling as ur main scout. Maybe it will one day substitute the drone, or the overlord, the zergling or even the overseer. Eh wait no it won't. 99% of people gets the overseer because they have to, unless they dont want detection. Get over it. Also dont get too defensive about the changeling man, its just a unit being tested, and so far is failing.

About the second thing, what u said has nothing to do with what i said.

Players go for guardians and fail. Ok... And????? Whats with that??? Because they couldn't do it once that means they are not useful???? Failing once and being succesful the rest of times, its way better than being able to succesfully use the changeling once, and fail the rest of times. And believe me, Ive seen hundreds of Zergs videos now.

[Nicol Bolas]

99% of people gets the overseer because they have to, unless they dont want detection.

Um, Changelings come with Overseers. By definition, if you get an Overseer, you get Changelings, whether you want to use them or not. It's not like that energy is going towards anything else.

Killing an Overseer means I lose 8 food. Killing a Changling means squat.

Because they couldn't do it once that means they are not useful????

Because 90% of the time a player goes for them, they get run over. It's not as bad as the 99.9% losses that happen when someone goes for Scouts or Queens, but it's certainly not good.

BTW, you don't need a bunch of question marks; one has been good enough for centuries.

Failing once and being succesful the rest of times, its way better than being able to succesfully use the changeling once, and fail the rest of times.

Changelings don't cost anything. Guardians cost a lot of gas. If my Changelings fail to see anything, I can fall back on more dangerous methods of scouting. If Guardians fail, I lose.

[KadajSouba]

Um, Changelings come with Overseers. By definition, if you get an Overseer, you get Changelings, whether you want to use them or not. It's not like that energy is going towards anything else.

Killing an Overseer means I lose 8 food. Killing a Changeling means squat.

And... did i say something different??? You get overseer for the detection. Period. The changeling (CH) comes with, as you said. If they remove CH, will overseer turn useless???? No. The fact the CH comes with the overseer feels more like a forced... lets say...spell, more than a really useful one. The fact that if KILLING THE CHANGELING MEANS SQUAT, then you answered yourself about the usefulness or relevance of this unit, or spell or whatever u want to call it...

Overseer need to justify its existence, to justify why Overlord was split into 2 units, and if almost nobody uses the CH, then that is not the way to do it.

Because 90% of the time a player goes for them, they get run over. It's not as bad as the 99.9% losses that happen when someone goes for Scouts or Queens, but it's certainly not good.

Really??? Where did u get this from???? Id like to know. You are saying that the SC1 guardian, scout, and queen are bad units???? Damn you are rewritting history here man.

BTW, you don't need a bunch of question marks; one has been good enough for centuries.

It don't affects anybody else, you are the only one in here or any forum complaining about that. You must really have nothing else to complain about. Deal with it.

Changelings don't cost anything. Guardians cost a lot of gas. If my Changelings fail to see anything, I can fall back on more dangerous methods of scouting. If Guardians fail, I lose.

Why do you keep comparing a changeling to a guardian????? I dont understand that. Changeling is almost a spell. It cost energy. Guardian is... Hell I wont explain that to you.