Should roach deal 8x2 dmg sintead of 16x1 ?

[Nicol Bolas]

They are easily massable so they should cost a little more.

They're supposed to be easily massable. And consider this: he spent the following to get those Tier 3 Roaches:

Roach Warren: 150 minerals.
Burrow: 50/50
Burrowed Movement: 150/150
Fast Movement: 100/100
Fast Regen: 150/150

This doesn't include the Infestation Pit he never used and the Hive upgrade. That's a lot of money to be sinking into a unit; it had better pay off.

Also, Roaches need to be available in number in the early game, so making them too expensive just isn't practical.

I think the beauty of Roaches is that their range ultimately limits the utility of massing them. Hydralisks can attack at reasonably long range, so getting a large ball of them still allows the ones in the back to attack the melee units in front. Roaches have much shorter range, so fewer of them can attack simultaneously.

Mass Roaches works to a point, and then stops getting better. It's a hard limit on critical mass.

BTW, do you have links to those games?

[TheJet]

If you implicated this, then the Roach would end up fighting the immortal cost-for-cost.

The immortal's shields will take any damage above 10 and convert it back into 10 damage. Any damage below that will receive no damage reduction, and be taken as normal.

The reason the immortal did so much damage against roaches is it's ability to blast away a roach in 3 shots, and the fact that the roach did only 70%ish damage against it's shields.

If the roach damage was converted to 8x2, then immortal usage would fade out immediately.

[Todie]

ah,i didnt think of that actually.

[Nicol Bolas]

If the roach damage was converted to 8x2, then immortal usage would fade out immediately.

It sort of depends. Roaches would be able to ignore the Immortal's shields, but 50 damage is a lot harder to ignore. Also, the Roaches would have to get through the Stalkers/Zealots to get at them.

Then again, if the Zerg player has burrow and burrowed movement researched, then they can get past the Stalkers to reach the Immortals.

[Aldrius]

If the roach damage was converted to 8x2, then immortal usage would fade out immediately.

No it wouldn't. The Immortal's shield reduction against roaches is pretty negligible. It's the fact that it can kill a roach in three hits that makes it good against roaches.

I mean right now nobody really tanks the Roaches with immortals.

[Islandsnake]

Roaches are almost always never bad, once your at hive - theres never a reason not to have them.


And they kinda make ZvZ alot less fun than It could be


I dont really agree with this change though either

[RamiZ]

Also, Roaches need to be available in number in the early game, so making them too expensive just isn't practical.

Who said anything about being too expensive? They are really strong for their cost, making them cost a little more, for example 100 Minerals instead of 75, is what should tweak them a little. It won't be that game breaking, but it certainly will help.

BTW, do you have links to those games?

http://www.youtube.com/user/PerfectionistEmblem His Channel, last 7 games are vs. Cowgomoo, who is great Terran, I watched his games, and he was able to win other top players as KHB etc.

[Gifted]

Cowzgomoo (pardon the spelling) is one of the QA individuals under David Kim on the staff. FYI

[Nicol Bolas]

Who said anything about being too expensive?

100 minerals means that, in the time you could have gotten 5 Roaches, you can only get 4. And it takes 5 worker cycles to get the money for Roaches. This would make them less massable than before.

[RamiZ]

Cowzgomoo (pardon the spelling) is one of the QA individuals under David Kim on the staff. FYI

Yeah, I know he is one of the Blizzard stuff, but he is good!

100 minerals means that, in the time you could have gotten 5 Roaches, you can only get 4. And it takes 5 worker cycles to get the money for Roaches. This would make them less massable than before.

Well yeah, that is the point... To make them not that massable as they were, if we take a look at this, unit with those stats, that cost 75/25 and requires building that doesn't cost gas, is pretty strong. Roaches are one of my favorite Zerg units, I just think they should cost a little more from all those Videos.