Kerrigan why?

[Roland]

Very funny description of Kerrigan. Anyways, I too agree that she is overpowered. Kerrigan may have been the best Ghost at the time and may have been elevated in power due to her genetic altering but to take on two experienced Protoss, especially one who has had centuries of training and experience 'under his belt', is ridiculous.

Then again I am of the opinion that the novel Queen of Blades should be burned with fire. Lots of fire.

I agree with you that there is no way she could have fought both Tassadar and Zeratul and survived if all things were 100% accurate, but I'm fairly certain that fight scene was just to emphasize that the Overmind had really brought Kerrigan to the maximum possible potential (just like the Xel'naga did with the Protoss and Zerg. hyper-evolutionary virus FTW?) for any human, unless Kerrigan herself has evolved beyond that now. To be honest I always felt like the game itself made her feel weak, just because you were forced to baby-sit her, or mission fail, when she should have been uber-powerful on the battlefield.

I don't think they can risk having Kerrigan be weak enough to die, to a simple brawl, but in the cinema for the Protoss mini-campaign, Zeratul and Kerrigan obviously have something of a rematch, and Zeratul comes out of that wounded, but alive, so she's not exactly god-like, just very tough.

The Overmind made the Zerg Swarm feel like an immense threat. Kerrigan as the leader of the Swarm makes me imagine a picture of a little girl throwing temper-tantrums around her toys.

I hope she not only dies but suffers tremendously in the process.

And yeah, Raynor definitely has uber plot protection. He may as well have Power Overwhelming right now.

It's all in the voice. Seriously though, I think the best description is that the Overmind was a slave-driver, and Kerrigan is a puppeteer, how they rule the swarm is based on their personality, Kerrigan is subtle, manipulative, and scheming, so the Zerg just seem extremely compelled to obey her out of some kind of obsessive love. It was a biological imperative to obey the Overmind, you had no option but to obey him, the new Swarm seems just like they really, really want to make their queen happy. That could also give some insight into how she controls the entire Swarm with no cerebrates, instead of micromanaging their every move, she's just made them all really eager to please.

Reading Heaven's Devils, it's emphasized from page 1 that Raynor is, like Zeratul said "extremely resourceful," think MacGyver, in Space.

Kerrigan Abilities.

Kerrigan Agenda.

[Sarov]

I agree with you that there is no way she could have fought both Tassadar and Zeratul and survived if all things were 100% accurate, but I'm fairly certain that fight scene was just to emphasize that the Overmind had really brought Kerrigan to the maximum possible potential (just like the Xel'naga did with the Protoss and Zerg. hyper-evolutionary virus FTW?) for any human, unless Kerrigan herself has evolved beyond that now. To be honest I always felt like the game itself made her feel weak, just because you were forced to baby-sit her, or mission fail, when she should have been uber-powerful on the battlefield.

I don't think they can risk having Kerrigan be weak enough to die, to a simple brawl, but in the cinema for the Protoss mini-campaign, Zeratul and Kerrigan obviously have something of a rematch, and Zeratul comes out of that wounded, but alive, so she's not exactly god-like, just very tough.

Oh, I completely agree that Kerrigan has to be strong and that she is very much so. Ghosts are considered to be the evolution of, the best of, humanity and she was, at the time, the best Ghost there was. Combine that with her genetic manipulation, she would become increasingly more powerful and she was already frightening as a ghost. She may be as powerful as a High Templar now but to take on both Tassadar and Zeratul? I think that was more so exaggeration and a seemingly major one at that. She seemed not just all-powerful but practically unstoppable. That book was horrible, just like Shadow of the Xel'Naga. I never use that book to judge Kerrigan's or Zeratul's strengths. It just seemed to me that two experienced Protoss could be seemingly easily defeated by Kerrigan. I mean, Zeratul is over 600 years old, according to the original StarCraft manual if I remember correctly. Artanis was what, a little over a hundred or two hundred or something? Even if Artanis was two hundred, he still saw a lot of action, serving in a war with 30:1 odds. And considering that the difference between Artanis and Zeratul is about, give or take a few decades, four hundred years, Zeratul would have an extremely impressive amount of experience 'under his belt' compared to Kerrigan's few decades. That's why I couldn't stand Queen of Blades, it made Zeratul seem inexperienced in combat according to what I remember.

It's all in the voice. Seriously though, I think the best description is that the Overmind was a slave-driver, and Kerrigan is a puppeteer, how they rule the swarm is based on their personality, Kerrigan is subtle, manipulative, and scheming, so the Zerg just seem extremely compelled to obey her out of some kind of obsessive love. It was a biological imperative to obey the Overmind, you had no option but to obey him, the new Swarm seems just like they really, really want to make their queen happy. That could also give some insight into how she controls the entire Swarm with no cerebrates, instead of micromanaging their every move, she's just made them all really eager to please.

Reading Heaven's Devils, it's emphasized from page 1 that Raynor is, like Zeratul said "extremely resourceful," think MacGyver, in Space.

Kerrigan Abilities.

Kerrigan Agenda.

Oh, I know Raynor is resourceful. He always appeared that way to me in the games. He always seems to have a plan even if it's only partially made, and always seems to find a way to survive somehow against the odds.

And I believe I have read those two articles by you already but I'm not entirely sure of when. I believe they were showcased/talked about on this site before? Still, I agree that she is a puppeteer and an excellent one at that. The Overmind used the massive numbers of the Swarm while Kerrigan manipulates people. She managed to convince the Protoss and Raynor that she was no longer a threat and that the bigger threat were the other Zerg. Although if I were there, I would, like Aldaris, be screaming, "Liar! She'll betray us! Mark my words!"

[Roland]

Oh, I completely agree that Kerrigan has to be strong and that she is very much so. Ghosts are considered to be the evolution of, the best of, humanity and she was, at the time, the best Ghost there was. Combine that with her genetic manipulation, she would become increasingly more powerful and she was already frightening as a ghost. She may be as powerful as a High Templar now but to take on both Tassadar and Zeratul? I think that was more so exaggeration and a seemingly major one at that. She seemed not just all-powerful but practically unstoppable. That book was horrible, just like Shadow of the Xel'Naga. I never use that book to judge Kerrigan's or Zeratul's strengths. It just seemed to me that two experienced Protoss could be seemingly easily defeated by Kerrigan. I mean, Zeratul is over 600 years old, according to the original StarCraft manual if I remember correctly. Artanis was what, a little over a hundred or two hundred or something? Even if Artanis was two hundred, he still saw a lot of action, serving in a war with 30:1 odds. And considering that the difference between Artanis and Zeratul is about, give or take a few decades, four hundred years, Zeratul would have an extremely impressive amount of experience 'under his belt' compared to Kerrigan's few decades. That's why I couldn't stand Queen of Blades, it made Zeratul seem inexperienced in combat according to what I remember.

Agreed, the passage in Queen of Blades must have been exaggerated (although I haven't read it) my biggest issue with it is that any human, even infested, could begin to keep up with two skilled Protoss warriors in hand-to-hand combat, our bodies just aren't built to do things that the Protoss are, who were literally designed to be physically unstoppable, one Zerg using a relatively human body just shouldn't be able to keep up with two Protoss, no matter how much genetic manipulation she's undergone.

I think we'll see something much more impressive than simple manipulation from her this time though, there is a quote from her in the cave scene where she says "Do you hear them Zeratul? Whispering in the stars, the galaxy burns with their coming." Clearly, she knows quite a bit about the Cycle, and from her tone of voice, isn't really looking for a way to stop in.

I posted both those articles a while back here, see the "Similar threads" segment below.

[Pandonetho]

Agreed, the passage in Queen of Blades must have been exaggerated (although I haven't read it) my biggest issue with it is that any human, even infested, could begin to keep up with two skilled Protoss warriors in hand-to-hand combat, our bodies just aren't built to do things that the Protoss are, who were literally designed to be physically unstoppable, one Zerg using a relatively human body just shouldn't be able to keep up with two Protoss, no matter how much genetic manipulation she's undergone.

Er, why not? I agree that it was absolutely silly for her to fight 2 champions of the Protoss, but "being human" is no excuse against that. She was infested, and this infestation allowed her the ability to turn waves of bullets around with her mind, so why does it seem so impossible that the infestation fine tuned her body to be equal to that of or even better than a Protoss'? We all know the Zerg changed a sloth into what the Hydralisk is now, so I'm pretty sure it isn't far fetched to believe that the Overmind's Greatest Achievement did a lot more than that.

[meleander]

A zealot is more like a human than Kerrigan is
by 'becoming an overmind' I don't mean changing her physical structure (necessarily)
but changing her personality so that she is trully 'one' with the Swarm, so that the purity of essence is recaptured.

Zealots are so much more like humans then Kerrigan.
Yea, especially with how their knees are build.
Go study some biology, then write comments about science-fiction.

If she can't have better legs with so much great evolution, how she can her brain changed?

The Zerg need to be bad, not 'broken'. And not a sadistic type of bad, but an uncaring type of bad, treating everything in the universe as something to be assimilated into the Swarm.

Zergs are animals. Like ants, but with different possibilities. Driven by instinct. Created by evolution. Then, "upgraded" by Xel'Naga.

That is what Kerrigan's story line needs to be she needs to lose her 'caring' her feeling.. she needs to become a non-person... that is how she should die.

Okey, that a real good one. I like this plot.

and that is the fail... the zerg should be some 'magical great great evil that will destroy the universe'

Magical great great evil in dark sc.
Maybe some dragons too?
And then, undead... Maybe Rainor as their leader?

[hyde]

3) Some people like Jim Raynor/Kerrigan, which won't happen if Kerrigan remains infested. (IMO, even if Kerrigan can be made human again, Raynor won't forgive her. She killed Fenix of her own volition. The Overmind wasn't pulling her strings.)

The way that they are taking Raynor in, he's going to be your tragic space cowboy hero. He already has the boots and tattered denim clothes sipping his whisky at his bar with a revolver.
He will most likely die in a fitting heroic way by the end of the three games.

As for Kerrigan, she killed Raynor's bro. I really don't think theres anyway back for her in Raynor's books. And yes like what other people have pointed out, she did many things (Like killing Fenix) out of her own will. Her infested body are merely tools, she's literally just a bitch now who so happens to be the "Queen of Blades".
The overmind stopped playing puppet master a long time.

And honestly, if they un-infest her and she has some cheesy love relationship with Raynor - I will not buy anymore Blizzard games.

[Krikkitone]

Zealots are so much more like humans then Kerrigan.
Yea, especially with how their knees are build.
Go study some biology, then write comments about science-fiction.

If she can't have better legs with so much great evolution, how she can her brain changed?

Why would she get "better legs"?

That is one similarity between Kerrigan and humans v. Protoss (limb skeletal structure). We'll ignore the fact that her mind is now wired into the Swarm and she has had all of her cells changed for rapid Zerg regeneration.

There are superficial similarities that indicate her human origins... but she is probably less genetically/biologically human being than a fruit fly is.

Zergs are animals. Like ants, but with different possibilities. Driven by instinct. Created by evolution. Then, "upgraded" by Xel'Naga.

The Swarm is intelligent, not just instinctual.... but they are like a force of nature... a force that is so great+destructive that 'taming it' is the thought of madmen (Confederate scientists/Mensk)

Okey, that a real good one. I like this plot.

Thanks

Magical great great evil in dark sc.
Maybe some dragons too?
And then, undead... Maybe Rainor as their leader?

Lets see, Dragons...Guardians check
undead...infested terrans check
Psionic mind powers check
Invisibility check
Teleportation check
Telekinesis check
Summoning (archons) check

"sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishible from magic"

The zerg storywise need to be "great great evil that will destroy the universe"...

the 'magical' part is just the fact that Starcraft is in an unreal universe.... its just as 'magical' as warcraft or DC comics or Tolkein or Star Trek.. The Zerg and Protoss are both 'magical' in that sense... the Terrans a little bit less so.

[meleander]

Why would she get "better legs"?

That is one similarity between Kerrigan and humans v. Protoss (limb skeletal structure). We'll ignore the fact that her mind is now wired into the Swarm and she has had all of her cells changed for rapid Zerg regeneration.

There are superficial similarities that indicate her human origins... but she is probably less genetically/biologically human being than a fruit fly is.

Still not - she raided one of the Confederacy facility to gain more knowledge about PSI powers - human knowledge about how it works when you're a human PSI. Then she used that knowledge to become more powerfull.
Protoss have horse-like legs. It's better to have mutated Protoss legs, then human mutated legs, but I don't think fans would like her with something like that and maybe that's the reason why she don't have them.

Her regeneration is not as magical as one could think - human liver can regenerate in that way.
But we have some lazy algorithms for cells reproduction, they really sucks ;(

The Swarm is intelligent, not just instinctual.... but they are like a force of nature... a force that is so great+destructive that 'taming it' is the thought of madmen (Confederate scientists/Mensk)

The only intelligent one's are the tops like celebrates and Kerrigan (human before). Or Overmind. But it's still limited to being generals. It is similar to neuron network computing. Can learn, but still only to do tasks that is given.
That's the reason Overmind was destroyed, and Kerrigan could win and makes some allies.
Zegs just don't have abstract thinking.

"sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishible from magic"

Yes, for most people. For some in the world gun is still magical weapon. But if you're after some good high technical college there is no magic or secrets. There are things you know how they are works, or things you don't know how they works, but you could learn from someone (ok, I know about one mathematical proof that have more than 3000 pages. The last man who could understand it died about 20 years ago. Still, if there was someone who did it and a few who understand it, it is possible to learn by someone).
Still, I love that. Some really basic knowledge in mathematics, biology or informatics makes you a man full of wisdom. But on the other hand it makes your teacher a man full of wisdom and you... just some punk without it

The zerg storywise need to be "great great evil that will destroy the universe"...

They need to be a threat. They don't need to be evil. Humans are eating pigs and conquered every land they live in, so they should be evil. And we are a great great threat to pigs, however you are looking at it.

Lets see, Dragons...Guardians check
undead...infested terrans check
Psionic mind powers check
Invisibility check
Teleportation check
Telekinesis check
Summoning (archons) check

the 'magical' part is just the fact that Starcraft is in an unreal universe.... its just as 'magical' as warcraft or DC comics or Tolkein or Star Trek.. The Zerg and Protoss are both 'magical' in that sense... the Terrans a little bit less so.

Yes, you're right here and I admit it, you got me there.
It is the matter of given names and some logical or even pseudo logical explanation.

But you have to say, what Blizzard created holds the water as science-fiction.


ps.: I like this talking. I'm really waiting for your next response

[Pandonetho]

Disclaimer: I haven't exactly read the last few posts so I might be getting the topic wrong. But let me get this straight, you guys are comparing to see whether Kerrigan or a Protoss is more human like, as a justification for why Kerrigan beating both Zeratul and Tassadar is a load of baloney? Well, that's pretty irrelevant. It doesn't matter who's more "human like" because they're both so far off from human that it shouldn't even be a factor. Kerrigan has biological heels, a full body carapace, freaken scythe wings growing out of her spine, and some weird dreads growing out her head. She has glowing eyes, and she can levitate. Whether she's more human like or not is completely irrelevant because the fact of the matter is that (even though ridiculous) she fought both Tassadar and Zeratul at once.

[Sarov]

Well, I was debating how it just seems ridiculous for Kerrigan to beat both Tassadar and Zeratul considering that Zeratul has at least four centuries of combat experience and that he would have that much time to develop his psionic powers. Otherwise Kerrigan might as well be the Unstoppable Big Bad by the way they portrayed her in Queen of Blades and Queen of the StarCraft Sues (because of the fact that she's supposed to be very beautiful, extremely strong, probably the most cunning in the sector, one of the most powerful psionics etc). Just my opinion though.