Terran - Planetary Fortress

[Nicol Bolas]

but couldn't you use a Corruptor's Corruption ability to prevent the PF from shooting at your ground forces?

Yes, you could. Though it only lasts 30 seconds.

[XSOLDIER]

Yes, you could. Though it only lasts 30 seconds.

True, but if you stay mindful of the duration, you could have another Corruptor ready to re-corrupt it when the duration ends (dont know if you hit it early if the duration would overlap, or even if you can). You'd only need a couple Corruptors to make a big difference for your ground forces' ability to tear up the PF.


X

[Norfindel]

True, but if you stay mindful of the duration, you could have another Corruptor ready to re-corrupt it when the duration ends (dont know if you hit it early if the duration would overlap, or even if you can). You'd only need a couple Corruptors to make a big difference for your ground forces' ability to tear up the PF.


X

Well, the PF is earlier on the tech tree than the Corruptor. But i can see that counter working.

[XSOLDIER]

Well, the PF is earlier on the tech tree than the Corruptor. But i can see that counter working.

Ah, didn't take that into account.. :\ How much earlier do Terran usually get PF, as compared to Zerg getting Corruptors? I'm mostly wondering how likely you are to run into one before this tactic would be a viable solution.


X

[Norfindel]

mmm... let me see:

The fastest way to go PF is to get Engineering Bay, then you can do the upgrade. It's fast.

The Zerg needs Spool, Lair, then Spire for Corruptor.

The problem is that the Zerg would need to tech from one base, but the Terran doesn't needs to, and can probably even mine from the Zerg's natural.

Other statics defenses have 1 more range, maybe you can counter with them, specially because the Zerg static defenses aren't static

Ranged units at that tier have 6 or less range, the same than the PF, but maybe a mass of ranged units can do it. I'm not sure, someone test it

[Nicol Bolas]

The problem is that the Zerg would need to tech from one base, but the Terran doesn't needs to, and can probably even mine from the Zerg's natural.

If you let the Terrans build a 400 mineral building, and then float it into your natural, you deserve to be contained by a PF.

By the time they could even put a Command Center there, you should have taken your natural already.

Corruptors are for taking out PFs in their bases.

[XSOLDIER]

Damn that's a lot faster than I'd thought... I still think it'd be a really good tactic by the time you get even 1-2 Corruptors. (As Nicol mentioned just before I posted this). :P

I'm also wondering if, given that the cannon has to rotate towards the nearest target, if you could keep a ranged force "behind" it, and use Zerglings/Roaches to run up and take the shot as it rotates, before it gets to the ranged units (or drop stragglers from the main attack force, and run around it). Either way, it's a pretty micro heavy tactic, semi-similiar to the Marine/Lurker tactic.

I dunno if a Roach would survive a shot, but if they do (and the above idea actually works) you could burrow them in a rotation around the cannon, and kinda play whack-a-mole with the roaches to keep the PF cannon occupied.

Either way, I think that somebody should stress test some Zerg tactics vs. PF & upload the results.


X

[Norfindel]

If you let the Terrans build a 400 mineral building, and then float it into your natural, you deserve to be contained by a PF.

By the time they could even put a Command Center there, you should have taken your natural already.

Corruptors are for taking out PFs in their bases.

Yes, we are only theorycrafting this for the sake of it, but i don't think that anyone takes this strat really seriously.

If the Terran builds the CC near, and then floats it in place, he maybe could hide it, but would give a lot more time for the Zerg to build there. And if the Terran builds the CC right on the natural, he gives the Zerg less time to expand there, but the building can be stopped very easily by killing the SCV. With any of those options, it would be easy for the Zerg to expand before the Terran.

Still, i would rofl if i see that on a video.

[Rabiator]

First, Rabiator, I don't mean any disrespect with your opinions but it's important to clarify the importance and power of the upgrades that you mentioned "could suck".

1. The building armor upgrade is SUBSTANCIAL against earlier teirs and makes a difference later. What you don't realize is that with 1 level of upgrades, you get +2 armor (which is the equivelent of 2 armor upgrades for other units) it comes out significantly faster and costs overall less. This changes all buildings up to 3, except for the PF which starts with 3, upping it up to 5.

2. The second upgrade you mention is situational, if you have about 10 scvs at it, it works great to protect them (as it doubles their bunkerability for them, upgrading slots from 5 to 10.) As I mentioned in my above comment, this is how you keep your scvs alive when microing. Put all 10 on autorepair.. use O to load them if they get under fire, resetting the attack to the fortress and IMMEDIATELY hit D to unload them. They pop out and immediately auto-repair the fortress. They simply don't have a benefit to target the SCVs, and if you have the armor upgrade, it creates quite a connundrum for them.

I think I should apologize for my choice of words. They come from comparing the three possible offensive upgrades to mobile units with the one possible defensive upgrade for buildings. If you compare the "growth possibility" the fortress looses eventually. Even making it a +2 armor upgrade doesnt really help as that is the same amount of increase a marauder gets from one offensive upgrade ... or a Zealot or Roach. Granted there are not many people who upgrade much in the matches so far, but I think that will change over time. The fortress losing on upgrades is somewhat contrary to that term of "fortress" and maybe Blizzard could add an explosion when it gets destroyed as all the ammo blows up ... kinda like the broodlings coming out of Zerg buildings. So upgrades are good - as always -, BUT compared with the opposing upgrades they loose out ... AND I have yet to see a video where the terran actually gets the building armor upgrade or the bunker space.

Personally I think "Hi-Sec Auto tracking" is the most important upgrade to get if you go for an aggressive Fortress build, because it increases the range by 1 and that gives you first shot against many ground units which dont get a range increase. Also adding some buildings to create a choke would help a lot.
- Planetary Fortress: Range 6 + 1 with upgrade
- Hydralisks: range 5 + 1 with upgrade
- Stalkers: range 6 + blink to close in fast
- Marine: range 5
- Marauder: range 6
The positioning does not have to be at an expansion site and IMO it is much better at a cruicial position on the map ... primarily because many people do not expect stuff like this and might be stuck with relatively useless forces and tech for some time giving you even more opportunities to put pressure on them.

The thing is that while they are building up their regular forces and are getting more supply depots players often enough have 300 minerals to spare on making a CC instead of a supply depot and since you have to expand eventually it wont be a waste of resources in any case. If you find yourself in a situation where the opponent relies heavily on ground units you might as well go for it and force him to pass your fortress. Defending against Nydus and Warp Prism drops should be relatively cheap with a couple of Vikings on patrol around your base to kill the necessary Overlords and Warp Prisms.

So far I am a simple "eunuch" talking about SCII ... I only know how it should be done. Many of my wild ideas are too complicated to pull of reliably, but only heading towards my opponent in a straight line while pressing the fire button is kinda boring.

EDIT: One thing I would like to point out is that Zerg and Protoss both have base defenses against ground units which do not involve population. The only thing the Terrans have in that regard is the Planetary Fortress, but most people think of it only as a different kind of Command Center. So Terran is the only race, which is totally screwed by a warp-in, Nydus or drop when all troops have left the home base, beiing unable to leave automated base defenses against ground.

[Rabiator]

I actually found a video where the Terran is building a TRIPLE FORTRESS at a base and the results are rather disappointing IMO.

Part 1: (no real action)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E87h1KIuNOw
Part 2: Triple Fortress gets assaulted at roughly 7 mins and again at 9 mins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AavE5_3gfQ
Part 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uBRUgFE1XQ

So is the PF underpowered for what it suggests to be? This video seems to suggest it. The fortresses had at least the armor upgrade, no idea about the range one though.