Fungal Growth, Psi Storm, and Crucio Shock Cannon AoE

[Norfindel]

Why? You told the Siege Tanks to attack multiple units, in a specific order. If the unit is already dead (as in, just shot by another Siege Tank), it can't and shouldn't attack it. This is simply an outgrowth of Siege Tanks being hitscan.

Note that this works with all hitscan attacks: Marines, Thor GtG, perhaps Immortals, etc. Any attack with a visible projectile (and thus has a time to impact) doesn't work this way.

The problem, is that the unit isn't already dead. The Tanks shoot all at the same time. They somehow "know" how many of them must shoot the first unit to kill it, and so with the 2nd unit and the 3rd, etc.

Not necessarily bad for gameplay, but simply looks silly and not real at all.

[RamiZ]

The problem, is that the unit isn't already dead. The Tanks shoot all at the same time. They somehow "know" how many of them must shoot the first unit to kill it, and so with the 2nd unit and the 3rd, etc.

Not necessarily bad for gameplay, but simply looks silly and not real at all.

Not being realistic, I am far better with this than Nydus Worm coming from Nowhere...

[Shadow Archon]

The problem, is that the unit isn't already dead. The Tanks shoot all at the same time. They somehow "know" how many of them must shoot the first unit to kill it, and so with the 2nd unit and the 3rd, etc.

Not necessarily bad for gameplay, but simply looks silly and not real at all.

Its not entirely impossible, it just means that the Tanks have an advance computer system.

[Hammy]

Not being realistic, I am far better with this than Nydus Worm coming from Nowhere...

Its not entirely impossible, it just means that the Tanks have an advance computer system.

Since when does realism have anything to do with balance? Anything can be explained, but gameplay is much more important. That argument has, and nevery will make any sense, but why does it pop up so often?

In terms of pure gameplay, I don't think I like the new tank sysem too much. I feel like you should be hurt if you put your tanks in a perfect line, or if you're not scouting beyond your LoS (where your tanks can shoot but can't see). Generally speaking, I just don't like it when units do things that you didn't order them to do specifically. It sorta dumbs the game down, and ecourages A+move gameplays.

On a side note, I'm also sad that this type of mechanic also negates all sorts of beautiful plays where a player would sacrifice a couple of SCVs (or any other unit) to get his tanks in place in TvT for example. In general, this will make all tank battles 100% static, which is too bad imo.

[Nicol Bolas]

The problem, is that the unit isn't already dead. The Tanks shoot all at the same time. They somehow "know" how many of them must shoot the first unit to kill it, and so with the 2nd unit and the 3rd, etc.

Not necessarily bad for gameplay, but simply looks silly and not real at all.

That's not how the algorithm works.

All games process unit actions in an arbitrary order, whether you perceive it or not. Thus, one Siege Tank, even firing technically on the same frame as others, will fire first. Damage will be dealt, and the unit will be killed. Then, the next Siege Tank gets a chance to shoot. If the unit is already dead, it can't attack it, thus it must attack something else.

This didn't work in SC1 because Siege Tanks were not hit-scan. They did not do damage in the same frame in which they fired, so multiple shots could be "in the air" even if it was overkill. Now that they are hit-scan, it is inevitable that this would happen.

[RamiZ]

Since when does realism have anything to do with balance? Anything can be explained, but gameplay is much more important. That argument has, and nevery will make any sense, but why does it pop up so often?

Well seriously, what does realism have to do with balance? We are not talking about balance but realism. Read before post!

[Norfindel]

Since when does realism have anything to do with balance? Anything can be explained, but gameplay is much more important. That argument has, and nevery will make any sense, but why does it pop up so often?

Wasn't exactly talking of balance, but of why people reacts that way from seeing the videos. Everything that is too different from reality triggers an automatic WTF response. It's unavoidable.

That's not how the algorithm works.

All games process unit actions in an arbitrary order, whether you perceive it or not. Thus, one Siege Tank, even firing technically on the same frame as others, will fire first. Damage will be dealt, and the unit will be killed. Then, the next Siege Tank gets a chance to shoot. If the unit is already dead, it can't attack it, thus it must attack something else.

This didn't work in SC1 because Siege Tanks were not hit-scan. They did not do damage in the same frame in which they fired, so multiple shots could be "in the air" even if it was overkill. Now that they are hit-scan, it is inevitable that this would happen.

I understand why it happends, but nothing is inevitable, unless hardware-limited. If you want the same behaviour, you could apply targetting and damage in two different phases. But i'm not saying it needs to be like in BW, just that the new behaviour looks weird. There are many ways to do it, for example:


for x {
y = chosen target for unit x
apply damage to unit y
if unit y life <= 0 then remove unit y
}

That wouldn't allow overkill, but it gives an advantage to units arbitrarily chosen to be processed first.



for x {
y = chosen target for unit x
apply damage to unit y
}

for x {
if unit's x life <= 0 then remove unit x
}

That would allow overkill, and doesn't gives an advantage to units arbitrarily chosen to be processed first.



for x {
y = chosen target for unit x (choosing algorithm discards units with life <= 0)
apply damage to unit y
}

for x {
if unit's x life <= 0 then remove unit x
}

That would not allow overkill, and doesn't gives an advantage to units arbitrarily chosen to be processed first.


The last one if probably closer to the one used, as it's the most fair. Doesn't allow the enemy to send a "sacrifice" first to be overkilled, however, but it doesn't really has to do that way, as long as there are good damage-soaking units.

[unentschieden]

If it were about realism i´d expect Tanks to Target MORE intelligent, not LESS. They still kill each other if there is a enemy very close.

[Norfindel]

If it were about realism i´d expect Tanks to Target MORE intelligent, not LESS. They still kill each other if there is a enemy very close.

Oh, yes, in the battlefield you probably know the exact moment the enemy is going to die by the attack of another tank

[Nicol Bolas]

Oh, yes, in the battlefield you probably know the exact moment the enemy is going to die by the attack of another tank

Yes, when they get shot by one.

In the real world, generally, a direct hit by tank-class weapons pretty much kills what was being shot at. Tank battles are usually determined by who hits the enemy first: who has the better accuracy and position.

The only reason for multiple tanks to fire on a single target is to increase the chance of hitting it. And even that isn't necessary if you know where the target is; accuracy, even over miles, generally isn't a problem.