What needs to change(graphically) and why.

[Nicol Bolas]

Oh yes, we really need more games that look like that. Almost every damn Unreal Engine game has the exact same shades or gray/brown.

This. A thousand times this.

I am so sick of games that are just dark. I understood why in the old days of FPS games. Without HDR rendering, it's hard to make outdoors look realistically bright; all lighting is essentially darkening portions of a model. So things looked more convincing if you only used the lower half of the color palette.

We're not limited to that crap anymore. Contrast, people! If you want to emphasize the dark, dank dungeon, have me start off in the bright, sunlight outside. Then, when I see the dank darkness, I notice it more; it becomes foreboding and creepy and meaningful.

If everything is dark, then nothing is. If everything is one dark place after another, it just grates on you and becomes a big blah.

Sometimes, it's like the world look at Quake 1 and went insane, thinking, "Here is exactly what videogames should look like!"

[Broken_Lamb]

excellent edits! Especially the command center. I reckon what'd help some of the units as well is to make the glass (i.e the banshee's and dropship's cockpit) look more glossy, because the glass just looks like a paper gradient..

I agree that blizz should change the shaders for all terran units + buildings, I actually find that the building have gotten more toyish than they were before.

EDIT: Also that blizz should change the 'bumpers' for terran lift-off/ons (or at least ADD them) -- it looks like as if the terrans suddenly lost hover technology as a whole and just run on gas now.
And the industrial style of things should definitely be implented. Even in the UI, the UI personally looks too cartoony. And the terran building animation just looks like the SCV opens up a little box that just builds itself into a large-scale building. In the original, it looked like there was industrial workspace, etc.

[Hav0x]

excellent edits! Especially the command center. I reckon what'd help some of the units as well is to make the glass (i.e the banshee's and dropship's cockpit) look more glossy, because the glass just looks like a paper gradient..

I agree that blizz should change the shaders for all terran units + buildings, I actually find that the building have gotten more toyish than they were before.

EDIT: Also that blizz should change the 'bumpers' for terran lift-off/ons (or at least ADD them) -- it looks like as if the terrans suddenly lost hover technology as a whole and just run on gas now.
And the industrial style of things should definitely be implented. Even in the UI, the UI personally looks too cartoony. And the terran building animation just looks like the SCV opens up a little box that just builds itself into a large-scale building. In the original, it looked like there was industrial workspace, etc.

Terran buildings never used "hover technology" they have always used thrusters to move.

[ZealotPowerade]

And they already have. Compare the current Terrans to the initial reveal.

Plus, a lot of the detail he added was arbitrary (making shadews darker in some areas and not in others, etc). Actual renderers can't be that arbitrary. Shadows are shadows, and they are as dark as they are.



What is an "industrial metal?" And how do you fill metals with dirt?

Terran stuff is generally functional, rather than being pretty or elegant. That doesn't mean that everything should look decapitated, rusted, or covered in filth. Terran buildings aren't shanties built by hobos; they're mass-produced by an industrial, technological society that's trying to make due with what they have.

If I were given license and freedom to redesign Terran buildings, I would make everything square. Things would be built from pre-fabricated units, and buildings would look something like Lego brick houses. Granted, that might not play well with the gameplay need to differentiate things.

Arbitrary:
subject to individual will or judgment without restriction; contingent solely upon one's discretion: an arbitrary decision.

Can't argue with you there, yes my changes were arbitrary in that sense. Rendering is also subject to the artists discretion. If rendering were as perfect and exact to real life situations every game/movie would look like a photo. We fake it with rendering engines like we have today and there are so many different options to achieve the final result we are after. Allow me to restate that my paint overs are not mean to be an accurate model of lighting but rather convey an idea. My changes were deliberate and thought out at each step to convey a concept, not to provide accurate lighting. The funny thing is that if you want to get more in depth about it, shadows aren't all the same level of darkness anyway. This is because you're dealing with direct sunlight, bounced light, and reflected light. Thus all sorts of variables can account for the changing of shadows darkness. Of course I don't believe the sc2 engine is capable of bounce light but again I was more concerned about conveying an idea.

(applying a noise to shadows isn't difficult at all so how can you say shadows are just solid and the same everywhere even in a rendering situation? Rendering after all is only a tool created to produce a particular effect. If you want an effect, you write new code to get that effect. Its why blizzard hires people to write new shaders.)

You hit the nail on the head when you described the Terran as an industrial, technological society trying to make do with what it has. You don't see too many large drain pipes made out of Silver and Gold. Industrial metal is merely the metal most commonly used to build factories, refineries and water treatment plants. Of course in the future the Terrans deep in outer space probably have access to metals far more advanced then today's construction workers. So in this particular case I am using the words "industrial metal" to describe a feeling more than a specific metal. A feeling probably more accurately depicted in these images than in words.

Industrial metal 1
Industrial metal 2
Industrial metal 3
Industrial metal 4

The original Terran from SC1 had a slight flavor of this feeling and it would be nice to see at least a little of it return for sc2.


Of course the last thing to address is... my choice of words comes from a texturing standpoint. In Photoshop you can fill a layer with a pattern. So I was speaking of the diffuse texture map being filled with grunge, dirt, and scuff marks ect. Not overdoing it of course but rather finding a nice balance.

[mr. peasant]

I think it's worth mentioning that most of what's grey in the pictures you posted (with the exception on Picture 4) is actually concrete. Moreover, you do see 'gold-esque' colored metal in industrial work in the form of brass components.

Lastly, I think you should take a look at some of the Terran structures on jungle maps (example here). They look considerably different (rustier?) to the ones in your original post.

[electricmole]

too much industrial metal look is bad. Industrial metal of the terran in sc1 looks kinda weak, like they use trashcan type of metals and that everythings going to fall apart by itself. Just compare sc1 terran bunker to starcraft 2's bunker, the later is heavy duty very terran like while the old one looks like its made from a cheap thin foil metal. They're metals looks like from present factory or construction sites, and not very scifi military like.

The cc, factory etc in sc1 looks like what a desperate dystopian military army would built, and yes the terrans are more richer and stylish than that. Check hem out in sc2, check out the terran cities in sc2. SC1 was not perfect in all sense lorewise and gameplay, we were limited to see the whole terran worlds. We were in love with everything sc1 before but remember we were also 10 years younger noobs. SC2 now will tell what the terrans are all about.

I like how the terran looks like in sc2, they have more scifi durable high tech metal/steel look.

[Nicol Bolas]

Of course I don't believe the sc2 engine is capable of bounce light but again I was more concerned about conveying an idea.

What good is conveying an idea if it cannot actually be implemented?

applying a noise to shadows isn't difficult at all

No, but it is very, very wrong.

Shadows do not have arbitrary noise in them. They follow very specific, well-known rules (though not cost-effective to implement). Adding arbitrary noise in flat shadows is merely a hack. It is no better than having flat shadows, because the arbitrary noise is equally wrong.

Industrial metal is merely the metal most commonly used to build factories, refineries and water treatment plants.

And you don't see a lot of those on the front lines of an active war. You certainly don't build them there.

These kinds of open designs are open only because it's not necessary to cover them; if you're expecting them to come under fire, they will have to be covered in armor.

I like how the terran looks like in sc2, they have more scifi durable high tech metal/steel look.

If I recall correctly, aren't you the guy who thinks that the Thor doesn't look right because it doesn't shoot lasers?

[StrongCoffee]

What whe really need is the older, bulkier Thor model. The new one just looks too simple, too toyish. It even lost the cool "shark fin" on its back. Anyone else thoughts?

[ZealotPowerade]

Little off topic but... Nicol, are you a programmer? ok back on topic...

What good is conveying an idea if it cannot actually be implemented?

applying a noise to shadows isn't difficult at all

No, but it is very, very wrong.

I find it funny that in the block of text above you answer your own question in the first sentence :P applying a noise (very small texture file and blurring it) would give the illusion of bounce lighting. Its one of many ways of implementing bounce light. I wouldn't say its the best way but it is a way. You see in computer graphics its more about faking it because nothing in a render is real anyway. If it looks good in the final shot then it doesn't matter how you arrive at it. Do you honestly think the computer calculates every ray of light bouncing accurately across the surface in a game? No.. so we fake it so it looks like we are reproducing reality but in actuality it is something far more simplistic. Its not real, the rules are made to be broken. I'm also curious to see what particular areas of my paint over you have a problem with. You could have circled them in red with mspaint to prove your point. I think you're just looking for an argument :P

Especially since I already stated that most of the changes I made in my paint overs I could do myself quickly and efficiently. (speaking of diffuse texture chances and model proportion changes) Let me ask you something. If you look at the image of the original command center and my paint over, which one draws your eye more? Which one grabs your attention the most? At the end of the day its all pixels on a monitor so regardless of which one follows an accurate model its all pointless unless you create an interesting image.

And you don't see a lot of those on the front lines of an active war. You certainly don't build them there.

These kinds of open designs are open only because it's not necessary to cover them; if you're expecting them to come under fire, they will have to be covered in armor.

Again the idea isn't to create a Terran army that looks like those images but to invoke the same feeling of mystery and intrigue as those images I posted. Everything I say you seem to take literally. :P Also the materials used to build such industrial locations are things like steel which funny enough is used to build (though usually combined with other materials) military related equipment.

Oh and I couldn't really resist this... Just poking a little fun at ya. don't mean anything bad by it though. :P

Plus, a lot of the detail he added was arbitrary (making shadews darker in some areas and not in others, etc). Actual renderers can't be that arbitrary. Shadows are shadows, and they are as dark as they are.

Shadows are as dark as they are! (see attached image below)

So... yes shadows are as dark as they are but they are not as equal and perfectly flat as you are saying they are. Reproducing that effect in renders can be done many ways both with an accurate lighting model and without. It doesn't matter which one you choose because again at the end of the day its all about a pretty picture. King Kong has the most inaccurate lighting I've ever seen but it looks beautiful so it doesn't matter. Its about being dramatic and creating a mood. As artists we aren't bound by what is it, but instead by what does it look like?

[hyde]

Unfortunately I doubt Blizzard will do a revamp of all the buildings/etc.

They said themselves something along the lines

"We know some people are pissed at our color choices and etc, but we have revamped the look once and we like what we have come up with"

Not to mention, the game comes out in 3-6 months and is in BETA.
Better luck getting some changes in the Protoss/Zerg expansion packs.

But yeah, Terran looks lame. The Hellion hurts my eyes.