Trends i've noticed that could use changes

[PosImpos]

About auras, you still need to micro the aura-generator, which is a very frail unit, unlike the heroes in WC3 that had a huge amount of HP. If the enemy focuses fire on a Sentry, it isn't going to last.

That's a fair point. Still, I'd like to see Guardian Aura be changed to be an activated ability that requires a bit more involvement on the player's part - not just doing what they can to keep the Sentinel alive.

[Aldrius]

That's a fair point. Still, I'd like to see Guardian Aura be changed to be an activated ability that requires a bit more involvement on the player's part - not just doing what they can to keep the Sentinel alive.

It IS an activated ability. What made you think it wasn't? And it's called guardian SHIELD not Guardian Aura.

There are also other considerations, like the range of the aura is shorter than the Sentry's attack range. So if you want to use it with zealots you either have to micro your sentry or micro your zealots.

[Nicol Bolas]

Assuming no micro. Mainly I just want to know which one has more DPS. Yes, I know there are reasons to have one over the other, I'm not talking about niche scenarios.

Burrow micro is not a "niche scenario;" it's the only reason to use Roaches at Lair-tech. And spreading creep isn't "niche" either; it's a basic strategy of the intelligent Zerg player.

If you want to see what the DPS of a unit is, have one of them shoot at a Command Center and see how long it takes them to kill it. If you're looking for more useful information, like their combat effectiveness, then "niche scenarios" like using actual micro will have to be taken into account.

I'd say thanks but you didn't really answer the question, simply gave a reason for it not to be in.

It's an idiotic question. It has never been in the game. Nobody talked about adding it to the game. Blizzard has never stated that they were considering it.

It's like asking "Does the Nexus produce Stalkers?" or "Do Reapers come from the Planetary Fortress?"

1 Immortal hits a roach for 50... 4 Roaches hit an Immortal for 40 (w/shields) 64 (w/o shields).

3 shots from an Immortal kills a Roach
6-7 shot rounds from the 4 roaches kills the Immortal

And? Roaches are armored and do a lot of damage in one shot. Immortals counter armored units that do a lot of damage in one shot. They're supposed to beat them cost-for-cost; that's what they're for.

It's like saying, "Well, Mutalisks should get a nerf because they beat Immortals to easily." They're supposed to.

It's uninteresting because you don't have to place it, you don't have to micro it, you don't have to have any skill at all to use it. Just press a button and turn it on.

So, the location of the Sentry doesn't matter. You just turn it on, and your units halfway across the map are protected?

You do have to expend effort to make sure that all your units (including those charging Zealots that just ran out of its range to gleefully attack) are covered.

There aren't that many spellcaster abilities in Starcraft II, so I'd like them all to be a bit more nuanced than "press button to activate."

Arbiters had an aura; I didn't hear you complaining about them.

[PosImpos]

It IS an activated ability. What made you think it wasn't? And it's called guardian SHIELD not Guardian Aura.

There are also other considerations, like the range of the aura is shorter than the Sentry's attack range. So if you want to use it with zealots you either have to micro your sentry or micro your zealots.

When I say activated I mean like you have to do something other than click the button and it just turns on and follows the unit around. It's an "activated" aura but it's not an ability in the same sense that psi storm or force field is an ability. Sorry; I should be more precise with my terminology.

So, the location of the Sentry doesn't matter. You just turn it on, and your units halfway across the map are protected?

You do have to expend effort to make sure that all your units (including those charging Zealots that just ran out of its range to gleefully attack) are covered.

Yes, thank you, just totally exaggerate what I'm saying in order to make it seem ridiculous.

What I mean - and I think you know very well what I mean - is an aura isn't a particularly involved ability. Yes, you have to keep your units within it to take advantage of its effects. But as long as you're doing that, you don't have to think about it. Perhaps if the range is small enough that you have to be constantly working to keep your units within it, then it is sufficiently involved. But that just sounds annoying to me. But hey, maybe Guardian Shield really is a an ability which requires great skill and micro to use to its full potential. If such is the case, I will gladly concede the point. I'm just trying to say that an ability which is basically "turn on and nearby units take less damage from ranged attacks" doesn't seem very interesting to me.

About the arbiter: yes, it had an aura. But the aura wasn't one of its activated abilities. So Blizzard didn't implement the stealth aura in lieue of some other activated ability (like stasis or recall) which required energy. If the sentry had a passive "guardian shield" aura (which would be well overpowered I'm sure) and two other activated abilities - like the Arbiter did - then I would have no problem whatsoever with it.

[Nicol Bolas]

Yes, thank you, just totally exaggerate what I'm saying in order to make it seem ridiculous.

No, you did that on your own. After all, you're the one about to claim that an aura that doesn't take energy is more interesting than one that does. That's pretty much about as ridiculous as it gets.

But hey, maybe Guardian Shield really is a an ability which requires great skill and micro to use to its full potential.

Does Psi Storm require "great skill and micro"? No. It's point and click. Select HT, press the Psi Storm button, and choose the target.

So Blizzard didn't implement the stealth aura in lieue of some other activated ability (like stasis or recall) which required energy.

How do you know that? How do you know that they didn't have some third ability in testing, but in the end just decided to give Arbiters a permanent ability?

If the sentry had a passive "guardian shield" aura (which would be well overpowered I'm sure) and two other activated abilities - like the Arbiter did - then I would have no problem whatsoever with it.

I... what? That makes it less interesting. It would no longer contend with Force Field and Hallucinate, thus removing critical decision making from the ability. No questions of energy contention, or time limits, or EMP, or anything.

It really doesn't get more brainless than a permanent AoE aura, where position micro is the only thing involved. Saying that this would be in some way better than the current Guardian Shield is like saying that Dark Templar are more interesting than Banshees, because Banshees have to research and activate their cloak.

[Norfindel]

Does Psi Storm require "great skill and micro"? No. It's point and click. Select HT, press the Psi Storm button, and choose the target.

Well, it requires skill and micro, if the requirement is great or not, it largely depends on the situation. In PvP games, landing a Storm while dodging the enemy Stoms (in addition to your own!) is hard, every instant you have your HT selected is a instant you aren't dodging. Only slow targets are easy to target to full effect. With fast units you even need to predict where they're going to be when the ability activates (takes a small delay, even on BW).

[protoswarrior]

Well, it requires skill and micro, if the requirement is great or not, it largely depends on the situation. In PvP games, landing a Storm while dodging the enemy Stoms (in addition to your own!) is hard, every instant you have your HT selected is a instant you aren't dodging. Only slow targets are easy to target to full effect. With fast units you even need to predict where they're going to be when the ability activates (takes a small delay, even on BW).

I second you there. Storming and storm-dodging is the eternal micro dance in PvP, and in PvZ mid-game when facing lots of hydras. Storm does not require micro? It is very intensive to micro HTs and storming. Have you ever tried storming approaching speed zeals? You don't even dent their shields if you just storm a region they're only passing through and not stopping to attack. Yeah, storming definitely requires micro skill.

[PosImpos]

No, you did that on your own. After all, you're the one about to claim that an aura that doesn't take energy is more interesting than one that does. That's pretty much about as ridiculous as it gets.



Does Psi Storm require "great skill and micro"? No. It's point and click. Select HT, press the Psi Storm button, and choose the target.



How do you know that? How do you know that they didn't have some third ability in testing, but in the end just decided to give Arbiters a permanent ability?



I... what? That makes it less interesting. It would no longer contend with Force Field and Hallucinate, thus removing critical decision making from the ability. No questions of energy contention, or time limits, or EMP, or anything.

It really doesn't get more brainless than a permanent AoE aura, where position micro is the only thing involved. Saying that this would be in some way better than the current Guardian Shield is like saying that Dark Templar are more interesting than Banshees, because Banshees have to research and activate their cloak.

Well, I'm done arguing about it. Apparently I'm doing an absolutely atrocious job explaining what I mean because you haven't grasped any of the points I've made yet.

Cheers.

[Xeonio]

@PosImpos - Yea, I'm pretty sure that's the point of Nicol on these forums. Just to berate someone until they stop posting. Rather than answering a question he/she just talks down to you as if you have no idea WTF you're talking about. It's rather insulting but I'm gonna let him win cuz I'm pretty much done w/these forums as well. Sorry he got to you as well.