Surprised vs Disappointed

[ArcherofAiur]

So the fact that the Terran and Zerg both have to wait for their first production building to get their macro mechanics (Spawn Larvae, Add-ons and Orbital Command) but the Protoss can get one of theirs just before they build their first food building is... balanced?

Its different. Too early to say anything about balance.

[Nicol Bolas]

So the fact that the Terran and Zerg both have to wait for their first production building to get their macro mechanics (Spawn Larvae, Add-ons and Orbital Command) but the Protoss can get one of theirs just before they build their first food building is... balanced? I don't really agree with that.

The point he's making is that, however unbalanced it may sound, it could actually work out in-game.

Take Spawn Larva. In 2 SL cycles, I can get any expansion running. That's faster than any other race. Even with worker transfers, Zerg players can jump-start an expansion faster than anyone else.

Does this mean SL is over-powered? Maybe. Maybe not. That's what Beta is for, after all.

[Santrega]

The point he's making is that, however unbalanced it may sound, it could actually work out in-game.

Take Spawn Larva. In 2 SL cycles, I can get any expansion running. That's faster than any other race. Even with worker transfers, Zerg players can jump-start an expansion faster than anyone else.

Does this mean SL is over-powered? Maybe. Maybe not. That's what Beta is for, after all.

So heres a question... How does one decide if something is imbalanced in beta? How many wins does it take, or how many crazy games or scenarios? What is the gauge for imbalanced over balanced?

If someone perfectly uses chrono charge and always wins, does that mean chrono charge is imbalanced or that the player using it is just better than everyone else?

I can't figure out what you guys think is a good balance indicator...

PS: All i think you can go by is personal experience. My personal experience has indicated that protoss has a significant advantage using chrono charge well... which makes me think its imbalanced...

[Aldrius]

The point he's making is that, however unbalanced it may sound, it could actually work out in-game.

Take Spawn Larva. In 2 SL cycles, I can get any expansion running. That's faster than any other race. Even with worker transfers, Zerg players can jump-start an expansion faster than anyone else.

Does this mean SL is over-powered? Maybe. Maybe not. That's what Beta is for, after all.

Well. My point is that they should all be balanced around getting them at the same time. Or at least the ability to get them at the same time.

Its different. Too early to say anything about balance.

Okay, balanced isn't the right word. Do you think that makes sense/is good for the game?

[GRUNT]

Yes, and Hydralisks costing more gas, more food, and being Tier 2 will change nothing about that timing attack

Let me make it as simple as possible for you: I mention that timing attack not because I'm asking you to do it in SC2, but because it points out that even +1 damage to Hydralisks makes a difference.

[arthas]

You forgot the way underpowered Siege Tank,I mean less dmg for more resources,supply and time....I think they should give them at least 2 armor or 50hp(or 2 armor per upgrade)They are supposed to by 'heavily' armored(samo goes for Thors and BC's),And the Crucio's are supposed to 'better' in tank mode then before not more weak..

[Aldrius]

You forgot the way underpowered Siege Tank,I mean less dmg for more resources,supply and time....

Eh? They do an extra 25 damage to light targets than they did before. At the cost of only 10 less to armored targets. And I'm pretty sure Siege Tanks fire faster in tank mode than they did before.

[Nicol Bolas]

Okay, balanced isn't the right word. Do you think that makes sense/is good for the game?

I don't know. Double Probe production, even earlier, isn't as good as Mules (which give something like 5 SCVs or something) or SL (larva always spawned faster than Probe production, and SL gives you > 2x larva production). So while it might give them an early game advantage, what matters more is what you have to do to balance that advantage.

Zealots, the unit most able to benefit from the early CB, are easily countered by Zerg and Terran. As long as this is the case, CB remains balanced. If they have to nerf Roaches or Reapers (for other reasons), then there may be a problem.

Personally, I don't mind asymmetric issues that push you towards tech.

The greatest benefit of Chrono Boost really isn't about Probes; it's about the things that the other races can't do. No quantity of Spawn Larva or Mule drops are going to get you that +1 upgrade faster.

but because it points out that even +1 damage to Hydralisks makes a difference.

It doesn't make as much difference when Hydralisks do 12 damage rather than 10 explosive. 11 explosive is a much bigger improvement over 10 explosive than 13 is over 12.

Eh? They do an extra 25 damage to light targets than they did before. At the cost of only 10 less to armored targets. And I'm pretty sure Siege Tanks fire faster in tank mode than they did before.

Let's also not forget having 25 extra Hp.

[Norfindel]

So heres a question... How does one decide if something is imbalanced in beta? How many wins does it take, or how many crazy games or scenarios? What is the gauge for imbalanced over balanced

Well, IIRC someone from Blizzard mentioned once that they expect to get mostly random data until about the first month of beta has passed.

They're probably going to watch a lot of statistics, and a lot of replays. Some statistics could be meaningful, like % SL use vs win ratio, or win ratio by matchup, or total mineral count at different times, and stuff like that.

[Hamshank]

I will simply state this...



Disappointed:Pheonix. Right now I feel that either the damage has to be shifted a bit to the natural from the bonus, or more air should be considered light. In many matchups I feel that any time I'd use this, I'd rather use stalkers. The exception is a basic bisu imitation build by imitating the corsairs with pheonix.. but with the high level of rush strats that are prominent, this is nearly a death sentence.

The Phoenix is DEF. under powered right now -- they've got to address that.
The corrupter beats the phoenix in anti air by a lot. And is it even marginally better than the viking in AA, who is so versatile?