How much have fans helped against SC2 ?

[sandwich_bird]

When SC2 editor comes out, you can make 10 more races if you want them ^^

True! Plus, we'll have hybrids/xel-Naga models to work with

[Nicol Bolas]

The macro mechanics we developed at Blizzforums.

But none of them were used. Indeed, the 3 mechanics we have were already in the game before the contest concluded. The Mule had been mentioned previously, as had the Dark Pylon. And the larva spawning had been in in some form since BWWI.

Batch 40 was simply where they explained it all in detail.

I want a 4th race but no progamers would want that.

There are good reasons not to have a fourth race besides what progamers want. 3 is the minimum number of distinct races where you can have significant differences between them. Anything beyond 3 is having more for the sake of having more. It's simply more work for no appreciable gain.

[ArcherofAiur]

But none of them were used. Indeed, the 3 mechanics we have were already in the game before the contest concluded. The Mule had been mentioned previously, as had the Dark Pylon. And the larva spawning had been in in some form since BWWI.

Actually your wrong. The AoE Nexus spell was proposed long before the Macro contest.

The Thesis to Increase Macro Part 2 outlined a mechanic for increasing larvae by sacrificing larvae. For the record, you were right in arguing that sacrificing an overlord was too much of a cost for extra larvae. You were wrong in argueing that an extra larvae ability would not be as useful as just making more hatcheries.

And MULEs can be traced to a TL.net thread I had on calling down SCVs with drop pods.

[Santrega]

There are good reasons not to have a fourth race besides what progamers want. 3 is the minimum number of distinct races where you can have significant differences between them. Anything beyond 3 is having more for the sake of having more. It's simply more work for no appreciable gain.

I think I have to disagree with you here, simply because I think there is room for more differences, 2 in particular.

I still believe that you could do a more insect-like race, with even greater numbers than the zerg, incredibly weak in small numbers, but powerful in big numbers. The other race would be possibly the Xel'naga as a very powerful race, which is stronger than the protoss, and each unit takes a greater amount of supply.

The difference can come from Xel'Naga being primarily units with strong abilities, with weak - average attacks, while the the Insect-like race would have practically no abilities at all, and be primarily a macro-specific race.

[Nicol Bolas]

The AoE Nexus spell was proposed long before the Macro contest.

But there is no such AoE Nexus spell. It comes from the Dark Pylon.

On the rest of the stuff, if you throw out random ideas every few days over the course of a year or so, what Blizzard decides to do will likely look like some of them. But that is far from actual evidence that these ideas were picked up by Blizzard, rather than them coming up with them on their own.

I still believe that you could do a more insect-like race, with even greater numbers than the zerg, incredibly weak in small numbers, but powerful in big numbers. The other race would be possibly the Xel'naga as a very powerful race, which is stronger than the protoss, and each unit takes a greater amount of supply.

You just described the Zerg and Protoss as they currently stand. All you're doing is saying that these "new races" should be more of that.

The Protoss are not "more" of anything relative to any race, just as the Zerg are not "more" of anything relative to any race. They are different directions, not merely turning knobs up or down.

[mr. peasant]

Well, I know a few of my concepts/predictions were used. Prior to SC2's announcement, I had cooked up:

1. A non-energy-using unit with teleportation as the Protoss' primary ranged unit. Of course, I had guessed it as a Khalai Vindicator where as Blizzard went with a Dark Templar's Stalker just to spite me.
   
   
2. A Dragoon version 2.0 that could only attack ground units but was much hardier, on par with the Archon in durability and that it would be higher in the tech tree than the old Dragoon. We got the Immortal.
   
   
3. A Terran unit equipped with jump-jets and machine pistols designed as a harrasser. The main difference is that I suggested it as a caster with a lower unit:effectiveness ratio. Also, I had described it as only using one machine pistol to explain how it steered. However, Blizzard decided to forgo that little reality check when they designed the Reaper.
   
   
4. Prior to the Zerg announcement, I predicted the Zerg's Infest ability would work by targeting any Terran building whereby it would constantly pump out Infested Terrans. Of course, I had guessed it would be for the Queen where as it showed up on the Infestor and its effect was temporary as opposed to permanent.
   
   
5. After the Zerg was announced, I predicted that the Infestor would undergo a model revamp and wind up looking like a Zergified Reaver. Guess I got that one right on the head.

Granted, these were merely a small fraction of the things I've suggested over the past few years on Blizzforums. So, I was bound to get some of them right.

[ArcherofAiur]

But there is no such AoE Nexus spell. It comes from the Dark Pylon.

lol right, they are completly different spells. Nicol are you serious?

On the rest of the stuff, if you throw out random ideas every few days over the course of a year or so, what Blizzard decides to do will likely look like some of them. But that is far from actual evidence that these ideas were picked up by Blizzard, rather than them coming up with them on their own.

But we didnt just throw out random ideas. We had a framework for a solution to the Macro problem. Starcraft 2 would have a two tiered macro system. The first would be Automated with MBS for unit production and Automining for workers. This would allow new players to macro easily. The second tier would be racially unique mechanics that required decision making and multi-tasking. Weve been talking about these things for month, back when blizzard was using the gas mechanic and others were screaming for MBS to be removed. We offered a solution that pleased both noobs and pros and Blizzard adopted that idea.


And don't mistake iteration for guessing. The mechanics that were choosen were refined many times. This same process of iteration is how Blizzard produces the most polished games. The Probe AoE spell was really well developed. Thats why it won the macro contest. It wasnt random in any sense. You can try and dismiss it all you want but what we did was still incredible. We changed Starcraft.

[Kimera757]

Fitting new races into StarCraft would also cause lore problems.

The xel'naga and hybrids already exist in lore. Unlike Azeroth, however, there aren't undiscovered continents in a setting where numerous races can be found side-by-side.

[ArcherofAiur]

Fitting new races into StarCraft would also cause lore problems.

The xel'naga and hybrids already exist in lore. Unlike Azeroth, however, there aren't undiscovered continents in a setting where numerous races can be found side-by-side.

Arn't we talking about a whole galaxy in an infinite universe.

[Kimera757]

Yes, but how do you make such aliens plot-relevant?

The night elves, humans (and high elves), orcs and undead weren't sitting on different planets with only occasional sword point interaction. They were all found on the same planet, same continents even (some of the time), interacting constantly.

(Also, in Warcraft III you could have more interesting racial interactions, such as the unofficial alliance between harpies and centaurs, that you probably wouldn't see in a game like StarCraft.)