The incomplete story of the Zerg Spellcasters

[Aldrius]

That's only because you're not used to it.

Ah, maybe. I don't have a huge amount of SC experience to be honest. I played War3 a lot more seriously.

Still, the lack of Zerg tier 1 anti-air is a pain. Makes scouting a lot more important. And scouting makes me nervous. Hehe.

[Krikkitone]

Well Things I would like them to get

Overseer...
Definitely Spore Cloud: LOS blocker AND have it cloak all units in the Cloud as well
Then either Acid Cloud or the Corruption ability from the Corrupter.


Infestor:
Neural Parasite needs to go one of two ways:
1. Cheap (make it cheaper/longer duration and prevent it from working on massive units)
2. Expensive (allow it to work on mechanical units and massive units..keep the "Psionic" limitation though)
you might need a special rule to prevent building with SCVs and Probes though.

Otherwise I like their abilites (Siphon life can be autocast I believe essentially making the Infester a weak attacker)
They just need some balancing. Perhaps make Siphon life castable while burrowed.

Corrupter:
Making Corrupted masses again... Definitely... maybe make it require energy...75 energy=implant spore (if unit dies it becomes a corrupted mass.) time ?20?.. can be auto cast? perhaps it slows unit movement as well

Not sure about the Building Corruption ability... that would probably be better on the overseer, and would need to be balanced.
As it is its like Disruption web but better since it hits friendly buildings too.


So
Infester: same but Tweak+balance

EITHER
Overseer: +Spore Cloud+Corruption/Acid cloud (keep changeling)
Corrupter: +Corrupted mass Ability (no energy)

OR
Overseer: +Spore Cloud (keep Changeling)
Corrupter: +Corrupted mass(needs energy) +Corruption

and then balance the abilities a bit

To balance the "Corrupted Mass" give it a long range ie 9 or 12 instead of just standard Turret range... or a long lifetime (so that its major benefit is area denial to ground+air)

[Nicol Bolas]

The problem with Corruptors now is that they simply do not kill things fast enough. Putting that 150/100 into two Hydralisks (200/100) gives you far more stopping power. Yes, Corruptors fly, but when a quartet of Banshees comes into your base with a bad attitude, you need to kill them quickly. Corruptors currently operate on the idea that their large well of Hp will outlast the enemy.

That's fine when you're talking about Vikings, but Banshees are only interested in killing things quickly. And Void Rays love large wells of Hp; 3 of those guys can easily take on 4-5 Corruptors.

The Zerg are the only race now with a vulnerable macro mechanic. They should be able to stop threats like this quickly, or Queens need to be reworked. Corruptors, if they are going to be useful AtA fighters, must be more cost effective at stopping Banshees or Void Rays than Hydralisks.

Definitely Spore Cloud: LOS blocker AND have it cloak all units in the Cloud as well

I like Spore Cloud, but cloaking is overkill. Remember: Overseers are cheap.

[RamiZ]

I liked how every AtA unit in starcraft2 HAD influence on ground targets. Vikings could change mode to Walkers, Phoenixes have gravity beam, so they can pick up important targets, and Corruptors had Corrupted mass, which was my favorite from all 3. You actually punished players even more for going combination of Ground and Air, since when you kill air, you keep attacking ground with Corruptors...

Now I would like to see old Corruptors back and Overseers getting or Acid Spore/Corruption/Spore Cloud... As Krik said...

And Legacy, you quoted me on some things, mind controlling ultras is good, but as Nicol said, why would you even bother?

And about Hydras being strong, yes it is good, but as I said, it isn't bad, it is imbalanced. Yes they cost a lot, but why would I even bother to teaching to Tier 3? When I got Hydras that cost like Marauders but are more general units. I need just to mass them and making Nydus Worms all over the map...

There is really really no point in teaching to Brood Lords and Ultras and with this state of Spell Casters there is no point in making anything than Infestors occasionally... So people will end the game with just massing Lings and Hydras, with sometimes adding the Roaches and Banelings to the army(if needed...).

That is my point, they should be rebalanced so all has it use. And I hope Beta will show and do that!

[Nicol Bolas]

Yes they cost a lot, but why would I even bother to teaching to Tier 3? When I got Hydras that cost like Marauders but are more general units. I need just to mass them and making Nydus Worms all over the map...

If my opponent had spent the money for those Ultralisks on Tier 3 Roaches (with the Roach upgrades), I would have been utterly murdered. One on one, Roaches are more powerful, and they cost half of Hydralisks. Or you could go for mass Cracklings, which is even more devastating. Either way. Tier 3 offers much to a Zerg player.

Hell, Fungal Growth + Banelings alone would have ended my little Hydralisk army. But he went for the big, flashy thing like so many SC players, rather than the less sexy-but-effective counter.

There is really really no point in teaching to Brood Lords and Ultras and with this state of Spell Casters there is no point in making anything than Infestors occasionally... So people will end the game with just massing Lings and Hydras, with sometimes adding the Roaches and Banelings to the army(if needed...).

In ZvZ you're right that Brood Lords and Ultralisks don't have much use. But they do have use in other matches. Well, BLs do. I still don't know what Ultralisks are for.

[Aldrius]

I liked how every AtA unit in starcraft2 HAD influence on ground targets.

I personally don't like that at all... but eh.

And about Hydras being strong, yes it is good, but as I said, it isn't bad, it is imbalanced.

Because Hydralisks are REALLY vulnerable. Hellions, Marine + Medivac, Colossi + Psi Storm. They cost about 1.5x as much and still have the same HP. They may be more offensively powerful, but defensively they're more vulnerable than ever.

with this state of Spell Casters there is no point in making anything than Infestors occasionally

Infestors are pretty worthwhile. They combine well with Hydralisks actually.

[Krikkitone]

I personally don't like that at all... but eh.




Because Hydralisks are REALLY vulnerable. Hellions, Marine + Medivac, Colossi + Psi Storm. They cost about 1.5x as much and still have the same HP. They may be more offensively powerful, but defensively they're more vulnerable than ever.
.

Which is why a good change for Them might be to make their Range upgrade +2 instead of +1

(since that would let them get equal/greater range than most units except Siege units)


And I do like that the AtA all have some ground effect, just weaker than their air effect.
Corrupted mass was the best.

[TheMasterElite]

Wort,

I was thinking about this just the other day...how coincidental.

From my observations, I've come to find that the Zerg, both in SC1 and SC2, are perhaps the most mobile side in the game, with all of their units being considerably fast and able to rapidly strike and retreat...or to simply swarm so quickly and so suddenly that by the time reinforcements arrive there's nothing left...

With this in mind, I think that Zerg "caster" units should have abilities to support these traits.

Firstly, the Corrupter. From what I've seen its potent, but perhaps just a wee bit weak in its AtA, as has been stated here. I haven't seen the "Corruption" ability in action, but it sounds powerful; I daresay it should only deactivate a refinery/factory for about 10/15 seconds, but the effect should stack so that additional Corrupters should be able to extend its "out" period...of course, the maximum should be probably 60 seconds, to avoid "ovrpwrd.exe" [aka Win button; :P].

However, at the same time, this ability might be better in a different role; perhaps it should temporarily deactivate missile turrets/radar towers/force troops in bunkers to exit...in that case, 10 seconds would suit it I think.

With regards to the Infester, Neural Parasite should be expanded to cover Psionic units [except Archons] for sure. Lore-wise, one needs only look at Raszagul as a reference. They should be free to be used on almost all Zerg units, if not all period [what of neural parasitized Overlords?], as well as Zealots, Marines, Marauders, Ghosts, High Templar, Dark Templar, and maybe Stalkers and Immortals [I question the possibility of the last two on basis of their exoskeletons and cybernetic machinations not being so "neural"]...

Siphon Life is fine...perhaps they also, for a wee bit more "bite", should gain some sort of "Corrosive Acid"-style ability like the Devourer had in BW, but only as a low-cost special ability. Maybe with a little splash, though not as big as the Devourer had. Dunno about damage. If it is actually damaging, it should be more expensive energy-wise for sure.

I think the Overseer Spore Cloud should not only obstruct vision but also act as a light cover bonus, like you get when on superior elevation to those shooting at you [70% chance to hit]. In that case it would act as a sort of deluted Dark Swarm however...

Short on time atm, so I'll end my post here...comments? Ideas?

T.M.E.

[B~E]

Remember when the Corruptor was supposed to corrupt ennemies and change them into "towers" when they died?

The Infestor should have that ability, as an AoE spell; all affected units, if they die within X secondes, spawn broodlings or a stationary spore/suken colony.

This idea is seriously perfect.

[Nicol Bolas]

After today's games, I'm going to have to re-think my concepts with regard to the Corruptor. They do seem legitimately capable against air units, though not necessarily cost-for-cost. However, I'm starting to think that Corruption may not be that bad of a mechanic after all.

Knocking out defensive buildings would be a great boon for dealing with base defenses. A couple of Corruptors to take out key Missile turrets or Photon Cannons could let a cluster of Mutalisks make someone's day very unpleasant.