The incomplete story of the Zerg Spellcasters

[LegacyofTerra]

Utterly pointless versatility. The corruption ability has nothing to do with what the corrupters supposed to DO.

The corrupter is an anti-air unit. Tech-wise it is accompanied side-by-side by the Mutalisk. That means the corrupter itself doesn't have to be versatile. It's free to be a reactive unit. And if Blizzard's air model is worth a damn, it'll see plenty of use. Especially if the Hydralisk stays at tier 2...

I think Blizzard knows what the corruptor is supposed to do, they made the game. It could be a purely reactive unit, but that's exactly what the main criticism of it was earlier. More versatility for the Corruptor is not a bad thing, especially if you can shut down enemy buildings with it. There are few 1-trick ponies in SC 2 and that's how I think the game should be.

[Aldrius]

I think Blizzard knows what the corruptor is supposed to do, they made the game.

Then they should know the spellcasters and anti-air units are completely different things... corruption is the perfect spell on something like the Overseer or Infester IMO.

It could be a purely reactive unit, but that's exactly what the main criticism of it was earlier.

It's a completely baseless criticism as far as I'm concerned. Scourge and Corsair are some of the most used units in StarCraft 1. They serve pretty much NO other purpose, other than anti-air. As long as it's cheap, and is accompanied by a pro-active unit tech-wise (which the Corsair didn't even have... the Scout was worthless), there's nothing wrong with reactive ATA units.

Though, I suppose the Corrupter having Corruption is kinda like the Corsair having Disruption Web... or the Vulture having spider-mine... but eh. I just find Corruption on the Corrupter really awkward.

I think the Infestor should be able to mind control casters as well (psionic creatures are currently immune to NP), to give it more versatility, but otherwise the Zerg caster lineup looks good enough. What function do you need filled? That's the main question. Giving a unit additional abilities because one feels like it is hardly good game design.

What function needs filling is more like it. The Overseer should serve a purpose beyond being a detector if it's going to cost 100 gas. And the Infester should definitely be a worthwhile unit. Right now, like I said, it's lacking any sort of teeth. Siphon life is fun, but it's proven just a nice way for the Infester to get itself killed for me so far. And Fungal Growth's AoE is difficult to use and aim due to it's size. Especially against flying units. But that might just take some getting used to with the 3D engine. And then... Neural Parasite just doesn't really... work on anything significant that you'd want to control for 10 seconds.

So it's not the race that's flawed, it's just lacking in any cool or significant casters. And that *IS* a problem.

[LegacyofTerra]

Then they should know the spellcasters and anti-air units are completely different things... corruption is the perfect spell on something like the Overseer or Infester IMO.

They needn't be. It's not like the other AA-s don't have abilities that make it more useful all round. Having a air unit that can poke into the enemy base, F up macro and be useful against enemy air is what the Mutalisk should have been all along. That it used to be a different unit isn't an explanation why it shouldn't be that way right now. Especially since that was way before beta!

It's a completely baseless criticism as far as I'm concerned. Scourge and Corsair are some of the most used units in StarCraft 1. They serve pretty much NO other purpose, other than anti-air. As long as it's cheap, and is accompanied by a pro-active unit tech-wise (which the Corsair didn't even have... the Scout was worthless), there's nothing wrong with reactive ATA units.

You answer that quite well in your own next paragraph. Keep your mind open and explore the tactical possiblilities!

What function needs filling is more like it. The Overseer should serve a purpose beyond being a detector if it's going to cost 100 gas.

It's a free scouting unit dispenser. That explains a bit of the cost, but 100 gas seems a bit too much, I'll give you that.

And the Infester should definitely be a worthwhile unit. Right now, like I said, it's lacking any sort of teeth. Siphon life is fun, but it's proven just a nice way for the Infester to get itself killed for me so far. And Fungal Growth's AoE is difficult to use and aim due to it's size. Especially against flying units. But that might just take some getting used to with the 3D engine. And then... Neural Parasite just doesn't really... work on anything significant that you'd want to control for 10 seconds.

I think that all makes it worthwhile, setting up ambushes and destroying the enemy like that is a perfectly awesome strategy, or it might just prevent them from getting to their base in time to kill off your own attack, especially if you use multiple Infestors. That's game-changing if I ever heard of it.
Siphon life might need a range boost if what you say is true, but that's as close to Consume I'd like it to get. Making everything immobile constantly does not make for fun games.
As for Neural Parasite, try it against Zerg some game. It may not be as useless as it seems.

So it's not the race that's flawed, it's just lacking in any cool or significant casters. And that *IS* a problem.

Wait at least a week before calling casters "uncool" or "insignificant". They do have a lot of unexplored potential, and I bet Jaedong could beat most of this Forum with just Zerglings, drones and infestors/overseers/corruptors without even straining himself.

[Aldrius]

You answer that quite well in your own next paragraph. Keep your mind open and explore the tactical possiblilities!

Meh... rather have a good anti-air unit. Than a mixed caster/anti-air unit that isn't that great at either. (Corruption is just blatantly imbalanced right now, can completely shut down any static defenses.)

It's a free scouting unit dispenser. That explains a bit of the cost, but 100 gas seems a bit too much, I'll give you that.

Uh, not really. Spawn Changeling isn't all THAT useful. I mean the observer can cloak, and it costs a fraction of that. (Though, granted, Overseers provide supply.)

I think that all makes it worthwhile, setting up ambushes and destroying the enemy like that is a perfectly awesome strategy, or it might just prevent them from getting to their base in time to kill off your own attack, especially if you use multiple Infestors. That's game-changing if I ever heard of it.

It sounds it. But I find the spell really difficult to use effectively. I'm gonna keep trying, though.

As for Neural Parasite, try it against Zerg some game. It may not be as useless as it seems.

Zerg vs. Zerg is exactly the same match-up it was in SC1. You get Mutalisks asap and whoever has more Mutalisks or has better Mutalisk micro wins. There's zero opportunity to go Infesters as far as I see right now.

Wait at least a week before calling casters "uncool" or "insignificant".

I am jumping the gun a bit, I admit that. I'm pretty sure Fungal Growth is an awesome ability. But Neural Parasite is really bleh, and siphon life is so tricky... but it'd be so ridiculously powerful with long range. They just kinda all work on the same targets... low-hp biological units. He needs some more spell variety.

They do have a lot of unexplored potential, and I bet Jaedong could beat most of this Forum with just Zerglings, drones and infestors/overseers/corruptors without even straining himself.

Probably... that... doesn't mean anything, though. I mean when Boxer ghost rushes people it's not like everybody goes "OH! WE WERE WRONG ABOUT GHOSTS ALL ALONG!!!"

[LegacyofTerra]

Ghosts are difficult to use, but have still been effectively used by many. I'll never forget how FBH lockdowned a huge amount of carriers and in a later game, BC-s

[Todie]

,utas, really? dont corrupters beat them? arnt hydras quite cost effective vs mutas now? try armor upps on 'em, its great vs the glave-wurm bounce.

[Aldrius]

,utas, really? dont corrupters beat them? arnt hydras quite cost effective vs mutas now? try armor upps on 'em, its great vs the glave-wurm bounce.

Corrupters are okay. I didn't have much luck with them... but he'd outproduced me with Mutas for the most part.

I think Corrupters might just be a little too slow.

[Nicol Bolas]

Zerg vs. Zerg is exactly the same match-up it was in SC1. You get Mutalisks asap and whoever has more Mutalisks or has better Mutalisk micro wins.

Hydralisks own the hell out of Mutas. You need a mixed force of Muta and Roaches to be able to stop mass-Hydra, and sheer weight of numbers might still be against you.

dont corrupters beat them?

The only advantage Corruptors have over Mutalisks is that they have more Hp than Mutas. But that's it. And they still cost 50 more minerals.

[Aldrius]

Hydralisks own the hell out of Mutas. You need a mixed force of Muta and Roaches to be able to stop mass-Hydra, and sheer weight of numbers might still be against you.

I haven't had much luck with Hydras in any capacity. I find them really awkward to get at tier 2. But then I find tier 2 is really awkward for me in general.

The only advantage Corruptors have over Mutalisks is that they have more Hp than Mutas. But that's it. And they still cost 50 more minerals.

What about range?

[Nicol Bolas]

I find them really awkward to get at tier 2.

That's only because you're not used to it.

What about range?

They don't have the speed to exploit it. They get a first shoot off, but that's it.