Archon And Lurker Changes

[ArcherofAiur]

All they need to do is fix the legs and make them bigger.

[ALFM09]

I could be wrong, but I feel like I've read in one of the Q&A's from Karune (or read somewhere) that the Lurker underwent a model touch-up a while back.

[ArcherofAiur]

I could be wrong, but I feel like I've read in one of the Q&A's from Karune (or read somewhere) that the Lurker underwent a model touch-up a while back.

He later said they changed their mind and decided to stick with the one they had.


And I was like

Hidden Content:

[Wankey]

They did do a model touch up, it now has kind of a rhino head.

[GnaReffotsirk]

Jack-o's turtle-type lurker is best imo. Archons should let go of their armor.

[Kimera757]

Does the observatory still exist? If not, add it back in, and remove the lurker building.

No.

Blizzard has deliberately nerfed early stealth. This goes directly counter to that. The only counter-nerf is the overlord losing detection, but we all know why that was done.

[KneeofJustice]

Really? then why is scanner sweep basically required now? (you will always have access to it at the very least) and observers are the same cost minus the extra time and money needed to build an observatory. Observers are easier to get for sure.

Anyways, its hard to say what the lurker needs since we dont know what problems its having. The obvious thing is to move it down a tier so that it can get out before detection. This is the optimal place for it to be. Then they can add any cliffwalking or other abilities in tier three if it needs them to compete.

[Kimera757]

Really? then why is scanner sweep basically required now? (you will always have access to it at the very least)

Blizzard probably felt safe in requiring the orbital command due to its massive mineral-gathering potential. Everyone would have one.

And yes, it's required for terrans because they're the only race that has to wait until tier 3 for constant detectors.

and observers are the same cost minus the extra time and money needed to build an observatory. Observers are easier to get for sure.

They are. However, observers were easier to get than science vessels, and harder to get than overlords.

Blizzard acts like they feel that cloaking is overpowered and wants to give players a chance to defend against it early on (but not go overboard like they did with overlords).

Anyways, its hard to say what the lurker needs since we dont know what problems its having.

Yup.

The obvious thing is to move it down a tier so that it can get out before detection.

That's not so obvious, especially since Blizzard is going out of their way to nerf early cloaking. That would make it more powerful, but that's not necessarily the problem with the lurker or archon. (For the latter, the problem could be the dark templar, as an example. People might not be making them for numerous reasons and only making lots of high templar, which are easier to use in StarCraft II. However, you don't want to convert high templar into archons unless they're low on energy, and that timing is based more on what the enemy does than what you do. Also, you "have to" pick out the tapped out high templar and convert them, and even then you might want to wait until they recharge instead.)

This is the optimal place for it to be.

Not if Blizzard wants to avoid early stealth.

[KneeofJustice]

cloaking IS overpowered: its the only thing in the game you cant attack even if you know its there (throwing aside situational spells like stasis)

The cloaking is there to balance it. Tier one units could cloak if blizzard wanted them to because they could provide detectors at that level.

They had a pretty decent setup in BW: cloaking comes out mid-game. Detection is pretty much always there (in your defenses) but around the time cloaking comes out, mobile detection comes out as well.

This gives you the ability to tech for early cloaking because detection isnt omnipresent yet (as it would be tier 3) but the other player can shut this down with fast tech to mobile detection, or good placement of defenses.

In the case of terran, blizz got kind of lucky against protoss because academies were a little out of the way tech-wise. That meant that a sweep wasnt right on the way to whatever else you were building (this was just a nuance of the pro scene though, because any noob would want to use medic/marine vs zealot hordes).

For toss, the observatory doesnt really do anything but give you observers. Its a dead-end tech branch. To compensate, its fairly cheap, but you dont get it on the way to something else.

I cant say what blizzard wants, but in my opinion, cloaking should be available when it is most powerful: midgame before mobile detection gets out. This includes ghost, lurker and DT.

Now as for archons:

The potential destruction of two high templars is usually greater than that of one archon. Its just a basic calculation: with 2 HTs, i have ~200-250 energy each, which is at least one storm each, but up to 3, which can most likely do far more than one archon can do.

Until they do something to change this, archons will likely never see their true potential.

[Aldrius]

3 - I don't think all races should have a ground siege unit. Most of the exciting tension from BW came from Lurkers not having siege range.

I agree. Siege range seems kinda unnecessary. Almost counter-intuitive really.

If you ask me, move lurkers to tier 2, and take away their siege range and their required tech building.

And what? Replace it with the old Hydralisk Den upgrade? Uh, no, they need a tech building. Why would they get rid of it? The graphic exists. They might as well allow the Lurker to upgrade to it.

Honestly, just having it be at tier 2 with 6 range seems fine to me, I mean it worked in SC1, and I don't think it overlaps with the Baneling really. Evolves from a different unit, has staying power... but I don't know... cliff-climbing, siege range... seems so superfluous. Like sticking a radiator on a motorcycle or something.