Archon And Lurker Changes

[Shadow Archon]

I vote for a passive AoE damage aura around them. Like the Demon Hunters ability in WC3 but doesnt need energy.

Just melee range?

Lurker move while burrowed FTW!

I agree with this, but they either have to be slow on top of the ground, or slow underground for it to balance.

[Sydarm]

I agree with this, but they either have to be slow on top of the ground, or slow underground for it to balance.

there is no reason to go the slower route as everything can detect them by the time lurkers get on the field

[Shadow Archon]

there is no reason to go the slower route as everything can detect them by the time lurkers get on the field

Thats right, there Tier three, keep thinking Tier two.

[ArcherofAiur]

At least if they can move slowly underground their are tier 3 heavy hitting long range support. A complement to the roaming hydralisk bands and an alternative to the melee tank ultralisk and the faster moving broodlord.

[Sydarm]

I really think if lurkers had an ability that made them undetectable for 10 seconds or sometin while burrowed it'd be make them a little more desireable.

[MattII]

I vote for a passive AoE damage aura around them. Like the Demon Hunters ability in WC3 but doesnt need energy.

Works for me, any unit meleeing them takes 3 damage or something.

As for the Lurkers, what about if we let them keep the Hydralisk's above-ground attacks as well as giving them their normal burrowed ones?

[Nicol Bolas]

The solution to Lurkers is really simple. Two things:

1: Give them Siege Range naturally.

2: Make them not require a building upgrade. Having a Hive is all you should need to get Lurkers.

That last part is an important point overall with the Zerg. In SC1, the cost to get Hive tech was disproportionately huge compared to other races. There are two reasons for that. One is that the Hive itself doesn't give you anything. All benefits from the Hive cost extra money: +3 upgrades, Crack upgrade, Ultralisks, etc, all of these add costs above and beyond the Hive. The other thing is that the Hive's prerequisite, the Queen's Nest, is almost completely useless in SC1.

That means that getting Hive tech requires getting 2 useless buildings before you can even start paying for the stuff you actually want.

SC2 is a bit better in this regard. The Lair, which was an empty building like the Hive in SC1, now offers a real benefit. It allows you to make Overseers. And the Infestation Pit shouldn't be nearly as useless as the Queen's Nest. So that helps push Zerg through their tech tree.

But you still have this problem of the Hive itself providing no direct benefit. You have to get the Hive, then upgrade/build what you actually want. For simple upgrades like the Crack or regen upgrades, this is fine; all your existing units benefit. For unit morphs like Brood Lords or Lurkers, this is less so. You have to upgrade the building, and then you have to pay to build each unit.

By making Lurkers require just the Hive, it allows you at least save the money and time it takes to get the Lurker building from the Hydralisk Den. And the Hive justifies its existence.

[MattII]

Good point about the builidng requirement Nicol, but that still doesn't affect the fact that by the time Lurkers make it into the game most players are overrun with detection anyway.

[0neder]

Tier 3 lurkers doesn't work for a variety of reasons.

1 - Tier 3 already has Ultralisk and Brood Lord, too many good units too late.
2 - Siege range does not compensate for only being available when detection is almost guaranteed to be already in play.
3 - I don't think all races should have a ground siege unit. Most of the exciting tension from BW came from Lurkers not having siege range.

If you ask me, move lurkers to tier 2, and take away their siege range and their required tech building.

[Zahar]

I vote for a passive AoE damage aura around them. Like the Demon Hunters ability in WC3 but doesnt need energy.

I vote for it as a channeled ability that consumes energy. This way they don't completely prohibit zerglings and such, but are really hard couters to them if you micro them a little.