StarCraft II Artwork Thread

[Visions of Khas]

The evidence in support of IT is conclusively overwhelming as far as I'm concerned, and Bioware is basically dead to me because of it.

Wow, just... wow. The fantasy-world-building capability of ME fans like you blows away even the staunchest of the GOP. Okay, maybe that's a bit harsh, but come on! Among a plethora of other reasons why IT can't work, it would mean the Reapers win since the last few minutes of the game are nothing but an hallucination!


Also, it seems that Banelings make a popular choice for plushies and crochet projects.


baneling_plushie__crochet__by_bulaw-d5vr1pp.jpg

[DemolitionSquid]

Wow, just... wow. The fantasy-world-building capability of ME fans like you blows away even the staunchest of the GOP. Okay, maybe that's a bit harsh, but come on! Among a plethora of other reasons why IT can't work, it would mean the Reapers win since the last few minutes of the game are nothing but an hallucination!

That's exactly what it means. The original planned end to ME3, where you were supposed to see through the Star Child's ruse and destroy the reapers, not choose control or merge which were obviously Reaper-favoring choices. Instead, we can surmise someone high up wanted to make things simpler or cut the budget, and they had to revert to the ridiculousness we got. I HIGHLY suggest you watch this video.

[Visions of Khas]

I think I watched that doc but it was made before the DLC for the extended ending, so a lot of his points are easily invalidated either by that or just putting a little more thought into a matter.

I'm not saying I was happy with the ending; though the ending was lazy, I think the fan outrage was equally inane. But I read somewhere one of the lead writers locked out everyone else from the process when it came to the ending. I don't know how factual that is.

I just finished ME3 about a couple weeks ago, so I'm still thinking about the whole thing. I was thinking about making a thread about it, but I'm just worried people will think, "Old News" and ignore it.

[DemolitionSquid]

I think I watched that doc but it was made before the DLC for the extended ending, so a lot of his points are easily invalidated either by that or just putting a little more thought into a matter.

I'm not saying I was happy with the ending; though the ending was lazy, I think the fan outrage was equally inane. But I read somewhere one of the lead writers locked out everyone else from the process when it came to the ending. I don't know how factual that is.

I just finished ME3 about a couple weeks ago, so I'm still thinking about the whole thing. I was thinking about making a thread about it, but I'm just worried people will think, "Old News" and ignore it.

The problem is, the extended cut just tries to cover up the obvious things pointed out by the video I linked, not address or fix them. When you rewatch the original ending compared to the DLC, the DLC actually only changes 3 things: it explains how your squadmates got back to the Normandy and why Joker left the battle, it leaves the Normandy relatively intact instead of on fire as it crash lands, and it gives an epilogue about rebuilding. Everything else remains basically the same, so all you actually get with the DLC is a slightly more upbeat ending where there's less doubt about your friends surviving. Everything before Shepard chooses red, blue, or green is untouched - and that's where all the obvious dream sequence stuff is. There is also the matter of the new refusal ending, where you choose nothing, and everyone dies. This leads to a VI of Liara telling future races what transpired so they can beat the Reapers in the next cycle. I want you to listen VERY CAREFULLY to the Star Child, at the moment he reveals he is in fact Harbinger.

[DemolitionSquid]

edit: oops, double post.

[Visions of Khas]

When trying to understand IT, I read most people would considering the entire end sequence to be taking place in Shepard's mind -- his confrontation with TIM, Anderson and the Star Child. This would mean he was left in a comatose state back on Earth after Harbinger's attack, resulting in a conclusive Reaper victory.

Joker's retreat was an obvious move; nobody knew the Crucible's effect, so the Normandy's exodus just seemed like a moot point. So I was taken aback when fans declared he'd never leave the battlefield.

There just doesn't seem to be any real evidence at any point of the game for Indoctrination. Which in itself is weird, considering Shepard's and the Normandy crew's exposure. But this has always been a running theme through out the series -- Shepard's incorruptible, unstoppable will and drive. Certainly, there are the dream sequences, but it seems obvious this is due to stress and loss of friends and comrades.

EDIT You edited your post and I didn't see it. XD

Star Child was a VI/AI that represented the amalgamated consciousness of all Reapers. Harbinger's influence would clearly be dominant, since he's basically the Daggoth to the Star Child's Overmind.

[DemolitionSquid]

When trying to understand IT, I read most people would considering the entire end sequence to be taking place in Shepard's mind -- his confrontation with TIM, Anderson and the Star Child. This would mean he was left in a comatose state back on Earth after Harbinger's attack, resulting in a conclusive Reaper victory.

Yes, that's exactly what it means. EVERYTHING after Shepard is hit by the beam is a Reaper induced-hallucination before Shepard finally dies - even the destroy ending, even the DLC epilogue.

Joker's retreat was an obvious move; nobody knew the Crucible's effect, so the Normandy's exodus just seemed like a moot point. So I was taken aback when fans declared he'd never leave the battlefield.

Joker wouldn't leave without being ordered to do so. That's just not the character Bioware created. That you believe they made Joker a coward in the final moments is nonsense.

There just doesn't seem to be any real evidence at any point of the game for Indoctrination. Which in itself is weird, considering Shepard's and the Normandy crew's exposure. But this has always been a running theme through out the series -- Shepard's incorruptible, unstoppable will and drive. Certainly, there are the dream sequences, but it seems obvious this is due to stress and loss of friends and comrades.

What? They're mountains of evidence! The dream sequences alone are enough to prove the Reapers are trying to indoctrinate Shepard. The oily shadows, the child leaving to a flaming death, the alien whispers and Reaper growling when you refuse to give in. Seriously, watch the first video I linked to again.

EDIT You edited your post and I didn't see it. XD

Star Child was a VI/AI that represented the amalgamated consciousness of all Reapers. Harbinger's influence would clearly be dominant, since he's basically the Daggoth to the Star Child's Overmind.

So the fact that the Star Child says hes just the Catalyst and talks to you in an innocent voice, and then talks like Harbinger when you tell him to fuck off, doesn't bother you and make you think "oh yeah, this whole thing was Harbinger trying to get me to do his bidding?"

[Hawki]

Wow. Remember when this thread was about artwork? Wonder what happened to that?

Anyway, not really going to weigh into the whole IT debate. It had some merit prior to the extended cut, but with said cut, with the last piece of DLC (read, last) piece of DLC being released in the near future, with Mass Effect 4 almost certainly being set before the trilogy rather than any "Shepard wakes up at the start of the game," the only way the IT theory can live on is through fans. The only difference between the original ending of ME3 and other rushed endings by Bioware is that at least with ME3, fans had some stuff to engage in rationalization with. At least with ME3, we got some closure with the extended cut.

But that's just me.

I would cast Fenix in the role of Garrus.

You want Fenix in charge of calibrations? He couldn't even get his psi-blades to work!

I may be a little late in the joke, but isn't drawing parallels between Sc2 and ME kinda old now?

At this point, probably. Least until the next artwork batch comes.

I thought that Swann might deserve consideration as Garrus. You know, calibrations...
Oh, wait, maybe Tali is a better fit. Or maybe Engineer Adams.

Hmm...

*Gabriella Daniels = Anabelle Thatcher
*Kenneth Donelly = Earl
*Greg Adams = Milo Kachinsky
*Tali = Rory Swann (kind of a stretch, but they're the only two out of their respective groups that actually take to the field. Could swap Adams/Tali with Kachinsky/Swann I guess though.)

Sarah Kerrigan? Harbinger? She's clearly Miranda Lawson!

...well, why not? They both served what would become an enemy of their commander. And they both end up opening their airlock to their commander.

...don't judge me!

Harbinger is that one Hybrid that kept cropping up in that one prophecy level. Hell, he did the one-liners and everything. Though sadly nothing on par with the real thing.

Going by that analogy, wouldn't that make Maar (the hybrid) Sovereign, and Harbinger the Dark Voice?

Also, if Zeratul is the StarChild, he's the aspect that Shepard sees destroyed, and then keeps cropping up in his dreams. The true avatar-whatever of the Hybrids will be Zeratul in a space-hoodie.

At this point, I'm wondering if Tassadar should be the catalyst in that he's also this "ghost thing that nobody wants, but now that he's here, we can try to rationalize away his existance" (I'm looking at you, Brian). That might give Zeratul room to be Javik, as in, "wise sage guy that we do like."

Maybe Nova is Ashley. I mean, she was somewhat friendly in the first game, but in the second...

Yeah, but Ashley gets to do a 360 in character development by the time of her recruitment in ME3. Nova's only ever become more cold and callous over time for the most part. Don't see her really changing by LotV unless the Dominion is fully destroyed and she's left to operate alone or something.

I thhink it's better to fit Narud into Illusive Man. WHat if he can be just specific sientist who wants to research hybrids and use them.

Yeah, I think so. Both work with a commander character, both end up betraying them. And if we take the Kerrigan=Miranda notion, if Narud turns out to be Duran, then the analogy works even more.

[DemolitionSquid]

Wow. Remember when this thread was about artwork? Wonder what happened to that?

Anyway, not really going to weigh into the whole IT debate. It had some merit prior to the extended cut, but with said cut, with the last piece of DLC (read, last) piece of DLC being released in the near future, with Mass Effect 4 almost certainly being set before the trilogy rather than any "Shepard wakes up at the start of the game," the only way the IT theory can live on is through fans. The only difference between the original ending of ME3 and other rushed endings by Bioware is that at least with ME3, fans had some stuff to engage in rationalization with. At least with ME3, we got some closure with the extended cut.

But that's just me.

It is just you, because after close examination the ExDLC does in no way provide closure on the IT issue, only a more positive ending to Shepard's Indoctrination-induced hallucination. Seriously.

But whatever, you guys can believe Biowares lies all you want. Personally, I feel nothing but cheated.

[Visions of Khas]

That you believe they made Joker a coward in the final moments is nonsense.

So you don't believe that making a tactical retreat can ever be a good move? That it can't be part of a sound strategy? As I said, nobody knew the Catalyst's effects. Yes, we see Joker's courage and arrogance at the start of ME2 -- he's clearly not abandoning the Normandy. But he can learn from his mistakes, too. Capacity for learning is just as much a part of his character.

I'm not complaining that BioWare added Hacket's command for a retreat. The cut from Shepard aboard the Citadel to Joker and the Normandy in a Mass Relay stream is jarring and just made for poor presentation. THAT was the problem with the sequence, in my opinion.

They're mountains of evidence! The dream sequences alone are enough to prove the Reapers are trying to indoctrinate Shepard. The oily shadows, the child leaving to a flaming death, the alien whispers and Reaper growling when you refuse to give in. Seriously, watch the first video I linked to again.

My douchebag roommate pulled a dick move and disconnected our internet, so I can't watch it again at home. I'll try to after hours at work tonight.

Yeah, you're right. Several aspects of the dream sequence parallel descriptions of Indoctrination. However, these are all dreams; they're not waking hallucinations. And at no point do we see Shepard swayed by the experience -- unless, of course, you count the occassions he admits to stress, which he virtually never did in the previous games. But he's human, so he's not immune to stress and fatigue. He's being tested and strained in ME3 like never before.

I see these dreams more as a manifestation of stress. You clearly hear dead characters. In the latter parts of the campaign, I could make out Legion calling out. Yeah, it's weird that it corresponds to Indoctrination, and maybe the writers intended, at one point, to employ it; but at no point does it come into play in the story.

Are there any other instances in the game that I missed where Shepard is swayed? I'd really like to know, I'm not being cute or sarcastic.

So the fact that the Star Child says hes just the Catalyst and talks to you in an innocent voice, and then talks like Harbinger when you tell him to fuck off, doesn't bother you and make you think "oh yeah, this whole thing was Harbinger trying to get me to do his bidding?"

Oh, it bothers me alright. So does all the Reaper logic. "Organics must be saved from synthetics or they'll bring destruction upon themselves. So let us synthetic Reapers save them... by destroying organic life."

Yeah, there are holes. Stupid ones. But if Shepard lies dying on Earth, why put the effort into the whole charade in the first place? Talk about plot holes, IT.