Your picks for Beta

[ArcherofAiur]

But what would you spend those resources on? If you went pool before hatch you're going to have WAYYY more than enough money to continually pump lings from 1 hatch. The only other way I can imagine a zerg spending his money is if he was simultaneously sunken rushing (spine crawlers I guess they're called now).

I guess maybe a 6-pool could push that limit, but even then I think income would be >>> 1 hatch ling production.

Either way, this is getting a bit off-topic now. My main worry originally is that the macro mechanics are working to remove that very low tier of build or variety for fast expands or fast aggression. Right now it seems like the build order choices aren't going to have as much variety before getting queen/obelisk/OC.

Fast aggression is still posible. If anything now you can add faster aggresion to the mix.

Here look at any SC2 game and tell me things dont heat up fast.

[rcp181]

Fast aggression is still posible. If anything now you can add faster aggresion to the mix.

How can you possibly do a faster aggressive build order than things similar to 5pool, bbs, and 9/9 gate?

Here look at any SC2 game and tell me things dont heat up fast.

And here's why this argument is probably going nowhere; we don't have enough gameplay footage or experience to know what's viable. I disagree though and don't recall seeing any fast aggression build orders, but then again if the game's over in 4-5 minutes it sure as hell isn't going to show up in BRs and probably not on Youtube.

Edit: Please try to tell me BR2's bunker rush is a great example of an aggressive bo

[Nicol Bolas]

Exactly, less early variation due to the death of a fast 2nd hatch before pool.

It all rather depends on mining rates and power curves. We've seen the Zerg fast-expo (or try to) on every map in every BR we've seen Zerg play on. So clearly, it's not a bad idea. It may not be expanding before laying down a pool, but it's around the same ballpark.

An expand-before-pool build might be an incredibly risky but profitable if your opponent doesn't scout it build. These kinds of things need an evolved metagame to shake out, so even Beta won't be good enough to see what works early-game and what doesn't.

Besides, I'm not sure that SC2's mechanics allow for such econ-heavy play. Terrans can heavily punish you for a late pool; double-pumped Marines or Hellions are death to the Zerg.

All-in rushes will exist. But they are specifically designed to target standard play. Until standard play evolves from the metagame, there is no way to know what those all-ins will look like.

I can't ever see a reason not to start a queen as soon as the pool finishes. Last I knew queens did not consume larva.

No, but they do consume 150 minerals. And if you are trying to get Zerglings out as fast as humanly possible, you're going to get a bare minimum number of drones, so that you can get your pool out as fast as possible. Which means that, while you will have enough drones to get 150 minerals for the first 6 'Lings, you won't have enough drones to get the 300 minerals for 'Lings + Queen. You have to choose: Queen now, or Queen later.

Right now it seems like the build order choices aren't going to have as much variety before getting queen/obelisk/OC.

That's like saying that there's little build order variety before getting your Barracks. Duh!

[rcp181]

That's like saying that there's little build order variety before getting your Barracks. Duh!

Is the duh really necessary? I'm trying to have a real conversation here I'm getting really frustrated trying to talk on these forums.

No, it's definitely not the same thing. The OC and obelisk are not buildable until AFTER the barracks and gateway are done. If you want to dramatically simplify things, it's like saying there's no build order variety before a cybernetics core.

, but they do consume 150 minerals. And if you are trying to get Zerglings out as fast as humanly possible, you're going to get a bare minimum number of drones, so that you can get your pool out as fast as possible. Which means that, while you will have enough drones to get 150 minerals for the first 6 'Lings, you won't have enough drones to get the 300 minerals for 'Lings + Queen. You have to choose: Queen now, or Queen later.

Unless the spawning pool builds significantly faster, you're going to be floating 200+minerals and 3 larvae when the pool finishes. At that point you're going to start 6 lings and then start a queen ASAP once you have the money, with maybe a 10 second variation (however long 50 minerals takes) in starting your next ling set or the queen.

[ArcherofAiur]

Clearly you havnt conversed much with Nicol.

[rcp181]

Clearly you havnt conversed much with Nicol.

Ehhh, it's my own damn fault. I got myself into one of these stupid arguments I swore to avoid where I'm arguing about my impressions of a mostly unknown game that isn't even in beta yet. Without looking back, I can't even remember how I got on this topic in a pretty basic thread about what the strong units are going to be >.<

[ArcherofAiur]

We all do it. Stick around these forums long enough and you just might develop a snarky attitude like me and nicol.

[TwoTimer]

And its simply because many in this forum thought we'd be playing this game by now, posting away in the SC2 Strategy forum (which will launch on release day) probably with a balance/exploit patch or two already in it. Not the actual which is still speculating about beta testing.

[KillaKhan]

I say that Corrupters will be a huge hit. A bunch of corrupters only grows in strenth against air targets when they destroy one.
Also, the Brood Lord. As bad of a model it is, I think spawning broodlings on every shot would keep enemy infantry busy while you whittle away at their heavier units.

[KadajSouba]

SIr, you are dead inside...