Your picks for Beta

[rcp181]

Why are these non-aggressive? Certainly for the Zerg, it offers the most aggression possible: more larva. That means more units. More Drones for minerals means more units. Something similar goes for the Terrans, as minerals power Marines. Double-pumped with Reactors, that can mean a lot of Marines very fast.

I actually added the zerg part later and forget to edit the part about "aggressive." In zerg's case I'm actually worried right now that the queen makes another quick hatch before pool a production loss.

The other two examples I meant aggressive though.

In your example about marines, going OC first is an economic build up until that point. My example of an aggressive early-game build order would be something like BBS (I guess 1 rax + reactor in sc2) where you sacrifice your own economy in an attempt to punish your opponent's greedy play.

I forgot about the reactor too, which probably kills any major appeal of a second barracks before OC+reactor anyway.

It's probably too early for me to be worried anyway though.

[Kimera757]

Why are these non-aggressive? Certainly for the Zerg, it offers the most aggression possible: more larva. That means more units. More Drones for minerals means more units. Something similar goes for the Terrans, as minerals power Marines. Double-pumped with Reactors, that can mean a lot of Marines very fast.

If you're spending time pumping macro, you're not spending time attacking. Therefore, the early part of the game is not aggressive. (Also, the time it takes you to save up 150-200 minerals is time you're not sending 3 or 4 marines or 6-8 zerglings to attack.)

This isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially if it curbs rushing, but if the same build per race keeps being used, then that is a problem.

In most of the Battle Reports, the fighting starts really early, and macro isn't used much. Maybe that's given us a false impression? Beta videos would, presumably, be more varied.

[Skyze]

I dunno if I understand your thread.. but I know that I am going to start working on Stalker builds asap.. harassing hardcore with them and making my muscle memory of their movements down pact as soon as possible, so I can make them natural feeling.

I think I'll play 5-10 games of terran and zerg the first day just to test them but so far I think theres no question Im gonna play protoss 100% for life. Continuality is the key to success, no switching races ever for me.

[Crazy_Jonny]

Stalkers and Disruptors for the Protoss.
Marauders and Medevacs for the Terrans. (M&M&M)
Hydras/Roaches and banelings for the Zerg.

[Nicol Bolas]

My example of an aggressive early-game build order would be something like BBS (I guess 1 rax + reactor in sc2) where you sacrifice your own economy in an attempt to punish your opponent's greedy play.

BBS is an all-in style build. That's more than simple aggression. See below.

For the Zerg, sacrificing your own economy will mean "using larva on units instead of Drones". This is why getting a Queen out ASAP will be very much standard.

If you're spending time pumping macro, you're not spending time attacking. Therefore, the early part of the game is not aggressive. (Also, the time it takes you to save up 150-200 minerals is time you're not sending 3 or 4 marines or 6-8 zerglings to attack.)

It depends on your definition of "aggressive". If you mean "prioritizing speed over army size," then yes. If you mean "get the most units out as early as possible", no.

Maybe on a no-Queen build, you can get 8 Zerglings out at the 3:00 mark. But a similar build incorporating the Queen may be able to double that number of Zerglings at the 3:30 mark. Or, worst-case, 4:00 mark. Personally, I'd call the latter more aggressive.

Any non-all-in aggression for the Zerg will involve getting a Queen and pumping larva. Larva spawn rates from one Hatch can't keep up with the Zerg's mineral influx at that point.

[rcp181]

BBS is a great example of the earliest possible aggression.

BBS is an all-in style build. That's more than simple aggression. See below.

For the Zerg, sacrificing your own economy will mean "using larva on units instead of Drones". This is why getting a Queen out ASAP will be very much standard.

Exactly, less early variation due to the death of a fast 2nd hatch before pool.

It depends on your definition of "aggressive". If you mean "prioritizing speed over army size," then yes. If you mean "get the most units out as early as possible", no.

I'm absolutely talking about speed. Like I said, this is about VERY early game build variation and possible build orders that don't prioritize the macro mechanic first.

Maybe on a no-Queen build, you can get 8 Zerglings out at the 3:00 mark. But a similar build incorporating the Queen may be able to double that number of Zerglings at the 3:30 mark. Or, worst-case, 4:00 mark. Personally, I'd call the latter more aggressive.

I can't ever see a reason not to start a queen as soon as the pool finishes. Last I knew queens did not consume larva.

Any non-all-in aggression for the Zerg will involve getting a Queen and pumping larva. Larva spawn rates from one Hatch can't keep up with the Zerg's mineral influx at that point.

Like I said, I'm more interested in a viable fast hatch before pool. I guess I'm curious about any FE toss or terran builds as well.

[ArcherofAiur]

I can't ever see a reason not to start a queen as soon as the pool finishes. Last I knew queens did not consume larva.

If your going all in. They still cost resources.


By the way I would love it if queens mutated from drones.

[rcp181]

If your going all in. They still cost resources

But what would you spend those resources on? If you went pool before hatch you're going to have WAYYY more than enough money to continually pump lings from 1 hatch. The only other way I can imagine a zerg spending his money is if he was simultaneously sunken rushing (spine crawlers I guess they're called now).

I guess maybe a 6-pool could push that limit, but even then I think income would be >>> 1 hatch ling production.

Either way, this is getting a bit off-topic now. My main worry originally is that the macro mechanics are working to remove that very low tier of build or variety for fast expands or fast aggression. Right now it seems like the build order choices aren't going to have as much variety before getting queen/obelisk/OC.

[Islandsnake]

Psi Storm! - smart casting + 10 HT

Zerg Nydus worm

Nighthawk - I think thats what its called? I think its spells are going to be the subject of many complaints

[rcp181]

Nighthawk - I think thats what its called? I think its spells are going to be the subject of many complaints

I think it was renamed Raven, but I might have it backwards.