Lets Talk About Micro!

[Nicol Bolas]

An interesting micro ability I thought of was formation drawing.

The way it works is like this: you select some number of units. You activate the formation drawing function. At this point, you can left-click and drag a path. Your units then form up along that path at even spacing and intervals, as best as that number of units can. If there are more units than can fit along the path, then they bunch up. If there are fewer units, then they are evenly distributed along the path.

Now, you can't move the units in this formation. At least, there would not be a way to say, "Move the path forward." If you want to move them, then they will follow the standard movement conventions. So this is mainly a defensive technique.

Also, nothing says which units go where. So if you've selected a heterogenous force, they may not go where you'd like.

I. Order-Storage or Hold-Order

No. As DSquid pointed out, this is essentially timeshifting your time.

StarCraft is an RTS. As such, time and time pressure are important. What you're essentially asking to do is to borrow time from one period of time and donate it to another. This is not a good idea, since a measure of a player's micro skill is built on their ability to execute micro in the time allotted. Not in the time allotted plus some extra time that you borrowed from some downtime.

[The_Blade]

An interesting micro ability I thought of was formation drawing.

The way it works is like this: you select some number of units. You activate the formation drawing function. At this point, you can left-click and drag a path. Your units then form up along that path at even spacing and intervals, as best as that number of units can. If there are more units than can fit along the path, then they bunch up. If there are fewer units, then they are evenly distributed along the path.

Now, you can't move the units in this formation. At least, there would not be a way to say, "Move the path forward." If you want to move them, then they will follow the standard movement conventions. So this is mainly a defensive technique.

Also, nothing says which units go where. So if you've selected a heterogenous force, they may not go where you'd like.

What if you can build this templates within the map editor and you can save up to 3 in your battlenet acount. After, this three templates take the form of formation bottons somewhere near the minimap. Essentially it is micro and everyone will have their way of using it. And a a sidestep, the unit's Ai will be modified to this new formation, as such, spellcasters would move to new areas of your formation and zerg flanking would work different.

[Nicol Bolas]

What if you can build this templates within the map editor and you can save up to 3 in your battlenet acount. After, this three templates take the form of formation bottons somewhere near the minimap. Essentially it is micro and everyone will have their way of using it. And a a sidestep, the unit's Ai will be modified to this new formation, as such, spellcasters would move to new areas of your formation and zerg flanking would work different.

No. The point of my idea was to enhance micro, not to make it easier. My idea is dynamic and specifically facilitates defensive micro. It allows units that need to be positioned correctly for maximum effect to be positioned correctly more often and with less clickwork. Forming a tight wall with Roaches, for example.

The idea is meant to work with the terrain that is available. Preset formations are preset; they can only work for terrain that is exactly like what the preset was designed for. The idea does not include rotating formations, which presets would effectively require (unless you expect to be able to make your semi-circle preset for every possible direction). And my idea only lasts as long as you do not issue other commands to the units; there is no intention to provide mobile formations or formation marching or whatever, nor is there an intent to provide formations that place units in different locations based on type.

I'm a programmer by trade, so the idea of pre-programming things has a certain visceral appeal. It might even be interesting to make a game based around programming characters/units/etc and dropping them in a world (kind of an inverse Tower Defense-style game). But pre-programmed mechanics are entirely inappropriate for StarCraft.

[n00bonicPlague]

I doubt the usefulness of Order-Storage. Short lists of commands would just as easily be executed on the fly, and long lists of commands wouldn't work very well as the situation they were set up for could change in a heartbeat. Also, when it comes to SCVs and Probes, I think they can already store a construction list, but I'm not sure. (This would obviously be useless for Drones, as they themselves become the building.)

Path Drawing has some potential. I think it would really take just as much micro to draw paths as it would to click them out, so it could be an interesting option, but it could also be useless. Formation Drawing, however, would definitely cut back on the amount of micro required to position a group of units in a firing line, so I think that has much more potential.

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One interesting command queuing idea I've heard before is a way to interrupt a unit's current waypoint list without erasing the list entirely. As you know, shift+click adds commands which are to be executed after the rest of the list is completed. The suggestion was to implement ctrl+click for adding a command or a list of commands (ctrl+shift+click) BEFORE the previously established list of commands, thus preserving the original list.

For example, let's say you a-move a group of units through a list of waypoints meant to raze an opponent's entire base, but those units forget to destroy one of two buildings that are just a few steps behind where they currently are. Originally, you would have to select a group of units, get them to destroy the buildings, and then re-order them through the entire waypoint list again. With ctrl+click, however, you would be able to select that group of units and just ctrl+shift+attack the buildings (or ctrl+attack the area near them). Once done, the units would immediately go back to their original list of orders.

Another example would be if you command a group of workers to go to your new expansion through an elaborate waypoint list so that they don't cross through enemy territory. However, you soon discover a group of enemies moving right across the workers' path. Using ctrl+click, you could designate an alternate waypoint (or list of waypoints with ctrl+shift+click) so that they go around the new threat.

An interesting alternative to this feature would be the ability to add waypoints to the visible paths on the map. Recall the situation with the workers moving to a new expansion but potentially running into the enemy. You could select the workers to see their waypoint path, select the move command, hold down alt, hover the cursor over one of the lines between two waypoints, hold down the mouse button, and then drag the line over to another area to create an alternate route. Holding down alt+shift would allow you to add multiple new waypoints in this line.

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I think of all the ideas I want, the one I want the most is a hold-fire command. There are plenty of times that I want units in a certain area to just flat-out wait for their next order without going off on some wild goose chase or ruining a perfectly good ambush. When I first played SC, I was utterly surprised that that command wasn't available. I really, REALLY hope that it is implemented in SC2.

[ZealotPowerade]

The ability to draw shapes with the mouse that will influence units in a certain way lends itself to a lot of possibilities as well.

How many times have you been playing sc or war3 and you have multiple control groups in battle but now a decent amount of these units are damaged so you pull them back. Now its time to issue new orders to the units on the front lines but not everything on the battlefront is as clean as you would like it to be, so dragging a rectangle over the units that you want to recreate your control group can sometimes be difficult. Imagine being able to select units by drawing a shape across the screen around the units you want. Don't want that group of badly damaged tanks in the middle of your army rushing in? Instead of dragging a box and then shift clicking down to just the units you want to pull back you could drag an outline around just the forces you want. Bam you're done. Also imagine the potential of ctrl + double click on a selected unit to invert the selection of on screen units.

Anyway thats just my 2 cents.

[The_Blade]

I'm a programmer by trade, so the idea of pre-programming things has a certain visceral appeal. It might even be interesting to make a game based around programming characters/units/etc and dropping them in a world (kind of an inverse Tower Defense-style game). But pre-programmed mechanics are entirely inappropriate for StarCraft.

You are probably right regarding the reduction of micro, but sometimes reducing micro here might add more micro there. Still, it is just a tought and another place to invest micro at would be necesary.

The ability to draw shapes with the mouse that will influence units in a certain way lends itself to a lot of possibilities as well.

How many times have you been playing sc or war3 and you have multiple control groups in battle but now a decent amount of these units are damaged so you pull them back. Now its time to issue new orders to the units on the front lines but not everything on the battlefront is as clean as you would like it to be, so dragging a rectangle over the units that you want to recreate your control group can sometimes be difficult. Imagine being able to select units by drawing a shape across the screen around the units you want. Don't want that group of badly damaged tanks in the middle of your army rushing in? Instead of dragging a box and then shift clicking down to just the units you want to pull back you could drag an outline around just the forces you want. Bam you're done. Also imagine the potential of ctrl + double click on a selected unit to invert the selection of on screen units.

Anyway thats just my 2 cents.

I believe there's a hold shift button for selecting multiple units by clicking them and moving them out. It doesn't draw a line or figure but you can easily point out several units depending on your targeting skills and APM skill.

[SaharaDrac]

I'm no pro gamer, but I rarely store up more than 2 orders for a unit, ever.

[KadajSouba]

I'm no pro gamer, but I rarely store up more than 2 orders for a unit, ever.

Lol same here. But some ideas here are really good, aint too complicated, and can give the game a completely new face.

The formation mechanics are part of many other RTS's, I think that i could be a nice addition to the game.

Drawing paterns with ur mouse is nice too, althought i have never seen that before.

But im still waiting to see the Hold Attack mechanic. Of course as a command, not a glitch. I mean i dont think that in battle u are like: Hey the sun is funny today OH SHIT ZERGLING BANG BANG!!!!!!! That was close... OH MY GOD EVOLUTION CHAMBER BANG BANG BANG!!!!!!!!!!!

Lol just kidding.

[ZealotPowerade]

Drawing paterns with ur mouse is nice too, althought i have never seen that before.

For those who have used Photoshop or Zbrush I would say what I'm thinking of would be something similar to the lasso tool. It very gives you a very large amount of control over your selection that is intuitive and easy to use. Im not entirely sure but it seems to fit into the category of easy to learn but hard to master. Since the more efficient you are with dragging your shapes the more precise control you can have over your units.

[The_Blade]

For those who have used Photoshop or Zbrush I would say what I'm thinking of would be something similar to the lasso tool. It very gives you a very large amount of control over your selection that is intuitive and easy to use. Im not entirely sure but it seems to fit into the category of easy to learn but hard to master. Since the more efficient you are with dragging your shapes the more precise control you can have over your units.

It helps on the control of still images but what about moving targets that will eventually walk out or into the pattern?