New Year Macro Resolutions

[ArcherofAiur]

Oh my statement had nothing to do with the "balance" of micro and macro. Frankly im not even sure how to quantify amount of macro vs amount of micro.



Anyway my original point was that "keeping up" is intriscally part of playing against an opponent. Its a competition.

[Santrega]

SC1 was very macro-centered. A player with bad micro and good macro is going to be ranked a lot higher than a player with bad macro and good micro.

You talk like micro and macro in SC1 was 50/50, which is very far from reality.

Anyways, that depends on which race you have in mind. It's not the same a Zerg than a Terran.

.

Actually I completely disagree with this. I think most people aren't capable of actually microing and macroing to their full potential in either, simply because there is just so much work involved with both. However, you can certainly out micro and macro player and come out on top in starcraft. There are several little tricks like your placement of spell caster type units, such as distance between them that cause different single cast results, or actual management of the units to get them to go where you want them. With better microing ability you can also take better advantage of choke points and poor pathing in the game. Another example of micro actually balancing the game with macro would be the muta stack. Muta stack in its entirety is micro and powerful enough to balance the races better.

I don't think zerg would at all be balanced in starcraft without stacking. Luckily, I think they did a little better job with unit balance in sc2.

My point is, good placement on units and attacks can give a significant advantage to a player. If they only focused on micro and expanding/teching enough to build some units, they could most likely stay in any game and have the chance to win.

In sc2, micro has also been hit heavily by the automation... but I dont think enough to actually harm the game play much... Casual players will love this game way more... I just hope the unit balance and strategic choices available can overcome any issues automation may have caused in the skill requirement aspect of the game.

[don]

I think the key to making micro and macro more balanced is not by giving players "more to do" but giving them "more options to do" and having these options "truly optional" and giving the players the opportunity to none, one or more than one if their skill would allow it.

That said, my 1st new years resolution for macro would be:

1. There should be a minimal amount of macro in the game and multiple options for players to increase macro productivity.

There are 4 parts to macro in my opinion.

1. Resource gathering
2. Unit Production
3. Tech Choices
4. Building Placement/Management

I think instead of just thinking up one macro mechanic per race, Blizzard should just think about giving more "layers" for each of the above. Not necessarily uniformly for each race. Zerg can have more unit production macro, Protoss Tech Choices (maybe even a teching macro mechanic) and Terrans already need more thought on building placement/management (I love how you can swap and mix buildings and addons now).

[Santrega]

I think the key to making micro and macro more balanced is not by giving players "more to do" but giving them "more options to do" and having these options "truly optional" and giving the players the opportunity to none, one or more than one if their skill would allow it.

That said, my 1st new years resolution for macro would be:

1. There should be a minimal amount of macro in the game and multiple options for players to increase macro productivity.

There are 4 parts to macro in my opinion.

1. Resource gathering
2. Unit Production
3. Tech Choices
4. Building Placement/Management

I think instead of just thinking up one macro mechanic per race, Blizzard should just think about giving more "layers" for each of the above. Not necessarily uniformly for each race. Zerg can have more unit production macro, Protoss Tech Choices (maybe even a teching macro mechanic) and Terrans already need more thought on building placement/management (I love how you can swap and mix buildings and addons now).

You forgot upgrading/researching... thats probably best in macro... it certainly isnt micro...

[ArcherofAiur]

I think the key to making micro and macro more balanced is not by giving players "more to do" but giving them "more options to do" and having these options "truly optional" and giving the players the opportunity to none, one or more than one if their skill would allow it.

That said, my 1st new years resolution for macro would be:

1. There should be a minimal amount of macro in the game and multiple options for players to increase macro productivity.

Define "minimal amount of macro in the game". I find it very hard to see how you could create macro playstyles by decreasing the amount of macro in the game (even more than its already been decreased). But Ill let you explain your side first.


Also you say everything must be "truly optional". I think "truly optional" is kind of a misnomer when talking about RTS games. To have a choice that has impact on the game one of the choices needs to be the best for the situation. If both choices are the same than making the choice is not really a choice.


TLDR: A choice is a choice because its asking you to choose the better answer.

[Santrega]

Define "minimal amount of macro in the game". I find it very hard to see how you could create macro playstyles by decreasing the amount of macro in the game (even more than its already been decreased). But Ill let you explain your side first.


Also you say everything must be "truly optional". I think "truly optional" is kind of a misnomer when talking about RTS games. To have a choice that has impact on the game one of the choices needs to be the best for the situation. If both choices are the same than making the choice is not really a choice.


TLDR: A choice is a choice because its asking you to choose the better answer.

I think what he is saying is he wants more choices rather than more busy work. Basically APM sinks = Bad, and Strategic choices = good.

In other words, he wants less *Click here every X amount of times* and more *You can do this, or this, or this during a particular situation* and you make that choice once for that one situation.

[ArcherofAiur]

I think what he is saying is he wants more choices rather than more busy work. Basically APM sinks = Bad, and Strategic choices = good.

In other words, he wants less *Click here every X amount of times* and more *You can do this, or this, or this during a particular situation* and you make that choice once for that one situation.

See theres a key distinction. Its not a question of having less macro. Its about having more and better macro. You can have good macro mechanics that are click intensive ie warp-in (or my Remote Mining MULE proposal).

This is part of making the macro mechanics the same level of quality as the micro mechanics.

[Santrega]

See theres a key distinction. You can have good macro mechanics that are click intensive ie warp-in (or my Remote Mining MULE proposal). You dont need to have "minimal macro". You can have allot of good macro.

This is part of making the macro mechanics the same level of quality as the micro mechanics.

However, warp-in doesn't require you to make repetitive actions for the same result. Obviously if you want 5 units in 5 different places you are wanting to make 5 different actions with similar results, but not the same.

Its not like clicking an scv and telling it to mine... Strategic placement of a unit does count as a decision and is substantially more so than repetitively carrying out an action with an identical result every time.

[Operatoring]

I think the key to making micro and macro more balanced is not by giving players "more to do" but giving them "more options to do" and having these options "truly optional" and giving the players the opportunity to none, one or more than one if their skill would allow it.

That said, my 1st new years resolution for macro would be:

1. There should be a minimal amount of macro in the game and multiple options for players to increase macro productivity.

There are 4 parts to macro in my opinion.

1. Resource gathering
2. Unit Production
3. Tech Choices
4. Building Placement/Management

I think instead of just thinking up one macro mechanic per race, Blizzard should just think about giving more "layers" for each of the above. Not necessarily uniformly for each race. Zerg can have more unit production macro, Protoss Tech Choices (maybe even a teching macro mechanic) and Terrans already need more thought on building placement/management (I love how you can swap and mix buildings and addons now).

Options are really just illusions. The best option for any given situation will ultimately be figured out, and those who stick to the program will win, and those who don't will not. This happens in every game Blizzard makes. There is always a "best way". It's inevitable.

[MattII]

True, but you won't always have control over which situation you're going to be in, so you'll still have to think about what to do.