Psionic Power Levels Chart

[Hawki]

In the SC1 days I might have agreed with you.

To be honest, taking SC1 by itself, I always got the sense of Kerrigan being in that position already. Gameplay-wise, she trumps any ground unit in the game basically (cloaking, psionic storm, her base attack), and lorewise, that Tassadar had to use deception to get any victories at all, speaks volumes to me about how outmatched he is in terms of raw power. The barbs they exchange beforehand always struck me as Tassadar trying to cover his tracks, realizing that Kerrigan is indeed more powerful than he is, and "infantile test of will" was part of the psychological game rather than an absolute statement. That Kerrigan defeated Tassadar, Raynor, and Zeratul simultaniously doesn't make me disrespect them, if anything, it gives them a boost for shear nerve, and that they were able to give her pause at all (same goes for Zeratul in WoL, that even if Kerrigan outmatches him, as she should, the guy gets points for getting a blow in at all).

And since I know it's going to come up, no, I don't see this undercutting the protoss, or whatever, and if anything, Kerrigan's power is a case of the best of both worlds, combining zerg psionics (yes, they have psionics, that's never been in question, only that the psionics are used almost exclusively for communication and locomotion), with terran psionics/Kerrigan's own power (terran psychics at least being able to use their abilities on the individual, even offensive level), to create something new. That other more powerful psychics exist than the protoss (VotD, void destroyer, Kerrigan, energy creature, etc.) doesn't undercut them, because by averages, they're still the top game in town.

[Gradius]

^---that's why I threw the "might" in there. We also spend several missions taking care of her Chrysalis. In a DBZ episode that's the equivalent of powering up for five episodes to reach the next level.

Still, Tassadar gave her a fight with a mental projection as he sat safely in his base 13 miles away. That's the equivalent of Vader force-choking someone through a transmission screen. :P

[Turalyon]

To be honest, taking SC1 by itself, I always got the sense of Kerrigan being in that position already. Gameplay-wise, she trumps any ground unit in the game basically (cloaking, psionic storm, her base attack), and lorewise, that Tassadar had to use deception to get any victories at all, speaks volumes to me about how outmatched he is in terms of raw power. The barbs they exchange beforehand always struck me as Tassadar trying to cover his tracks, realizing that Kerrigan is indeed more powerful than he is, and "infantile test of will" was part of the psychological game rather than an absolute statement.

Gameplay issues aside, Tassadar is only outmatched by Kerrigan because he is stranded on Char... you know, the base of operations from which all the Zerg are still operating out of at that point in time. Kerrigan still has the full support of the Overmind's broods should she need them whilst Tassadar has alienated himself from the Conclave therefore having no back-up aside from the Dark Templar, who are also seemingly few in number.

[Nissa]

In the SC1 days I might have agreed with you. But she apparently beat Tassadar and Zeratul in a 2v1, can slam battlecruisers to the ground, etc. Obviously she's more powerful than Zeratul since she got the upper hand on him in WoL.

Everyone knows SC2 isn't canon!

...oh wait, still just me.

And no, Hawki, "Tassadar had to use deception to get any victories at all..." is an assumption. Did he really have to use deception? Sure, it may have been the smartest option in his position, but how do we know for sure that that was his only choice, and that he couldn't have done something else? If nothing else, his words at the end of that particular mission seem to imply that he's patronizing Kerrigan, not really taking her all that seriously. Given how freshly Zerg she is, she probably didn't even know her own potential at that point, particularly since her past is based on her individual talents, rather than leadership abilities, mass strategy, and the nature of the Zerg.

My basic point is, it's all assumption. We can't assume Tassadar was desperate at that point, because we don't know anything about his position there, other than him not having the backing of the Conclave at that particular point -- which in itself is a guess, despite being a reasonable one.

[Hawki]

Let's see, by this point, the KEF has been hit hard at Tarsonis, they're on a planet that has the entirety of the zerg on it (most of those zerg apparently doing nothing but letting the cerebrate do all the work because...reasons), and we know that they've been hiding. We've seen two frontal assaults fail as well. So no, deception seems to be the name of the game, and that extends to Tassadar putting up a front for Kerrigan, as his words imply.

[Turalyon]

And no, Hawki, "Tassadar had to use deception to get any victories at all..." is an assumption. Did he really have to use deception? Sure, it may have been the smartest option in his position, but how do we know for sure that that was his only choice, and that he couldn't have done something else? If nothing else, his words at the end of that particular mission seem to imply that he's patronizing Kerrigan, not really taking her all that seriously. Given how freshly Zerg she is, she probably didn't even know her own potential at that point, particularly since her past is based on her individual talents, rather than leadership abilities, mass strategy, and the nature of the Zerg.

Indeed. As Zeratul says: "But though we strike at you from the shadows, do not think that we lack the courage to stand in the light."

My basic point is, it's all assumption. We can't assume Tassadar was desperate at that point, because we don't know anything about his position there, other than him not having the backing of the Conclave at that particular point -- which in itself is a guess, despite being a reasonable one.

I hope you're not insinuating that not having the backing of the Conclave and reinforcements is an all-out assumption when it is revealed to be fact. Sure, at the time we don't know it to be fact but when looking at the situation from an omniscient, 3rd-person view, the only possible reason to ever make the claim that Tassadar was desperate/out-of-his league in his initial meeting with infested Kerrigan with any solid evidence would be that he really had no access to reinforcements/back-up (an irrefutable fact).

[Nissa]

I hope you're not insinuating that not having the backing of the Conclave and reinforcements is an all-out assumption when it is revealed to be fact. Sure, at the time we don't know it to be fact but when looking at the situation from an omniscient, 3rd-person view, the only possible reason to ever make the claim that Tassadar was desperate/out-of-his league in his initial meeting with infested Kerrigan with any solid evidence would be that he really had no access to reinforcements/back-up (an irrefutable fact).

Well, what I meant was that there was definitely a point where the Conclave removed their support, but we don't know when that point is. When exactly that support was withdrawn is the assumption. Given that Aldaris and the Conclave didn't appear to know too much about how Tass was hanging out with the Dark Templar (judging from Aldaris' reaction in the Protoss missions), it's possible that Tassadar still had some form of support until the invasion of Aiur.

[Turalyon]

Well, what I meant was that there was definitely a point where the Conclave removed their support, but we don't know when that point is. When exactly that support was withdrawn is the assumption. Given that Aldaris and the Conclave didn't appear to know too much about how Tass was hanging out with the Dark Templar (judging from Aldaris' reaction in the Protoss missions), it's possible that Tassadar still had some form of support until the invasion of Aiur.

Aldaris knowing about Tassadar's involvement with the Dark Templar was not when the Conclave ceased giving him support, it was the instant Tassadar decided to go rogue against Conclave orders by not burning Tarsonis. The very first mission briefing for the The Fall has Aldaris explain this and he later goes on about Tassadar's "desertion" having "shaken his faith". Doesn't sound like they'd actively supported Tassdar up until the Aiur invasion to me.

Whilst the following is speculation/assumption, it's also worth considering. The Conclave would've ordered Tassadar to return to Aiur the moment he made that decision to spare Tarsonis in order to account for his actions (like any higher-up would do) but he decides to ignore them and go investigate the psionic beacon that infested Kerrigan emits on Char and not tell them. I wouldn't then assume or expect the Conclave to still say "Here, Tassadar, please have some more troops and support, wherever you may be (Aldaris is quite clear that he doesn't know Tassadar's location after he disobeyed the Conclave at Tarsonis when in Into The Flames he asks, "Tassadar, Where have you been?") even though you disobeyed us".

[Nissa]

Aldaris knowing about Tassadar's involvement with the Dark Templar was not when the Conclave ceased giving him support, it was the instant Tassadar decided to go rogue against Conclave orders by not burning Tarsonis. The very first mission briefing for the The Fall has Aldaris explain this and he later goes on about Tassadar's "desertion" having "shaken his faith". Doesn't sound like they'd actively supported Tassdar up until the Aiur invasion to me.

Whilst the following is speculation/assumption, it's also worth considering. The Conclave would've ordered Tassadar to return to Aiur the moment he made that decision to spare Tarsonis in order to account for his actions (like any higher-up would do) but he decides to ignore them and go investigate the psionic beacon that infested Kerrigan emits on Char and not tell them. I wouldn't then assume or expect the Conclave to still say "Here, Tassadar, please have some more troops and support, wherever you may be (Aldaris is quite clear that he doesn't know Tassadar's location after he disobeyed the Conclave at Tarsonis when in Into The Flames he asks, "Tassadar, Where have you been?") even though you disobeyed us".

That is an assumption, but so is your first paragraph. We don't know if that's the exact point when the Conclave withdrew their support. Granted, it's a perfectly reasonable assumption, but Tassadar was given his position based on being a "favored son". It may have taken the Conclave a bit to realize the extent of Tassadar's sudden turnaround. That's all I'm saying.

[Turalyon]

That is an assumption, but so is your first paragraph.

I know the second part was assumption, I listed it as such, but how is the first part assumption though? It is clear that Tassadar disobeyed his initial orders, went rogue and then refused to keep into contact (not only is he disobeying direct orders, he further disobeys the implicit rules that govern how any military hierarchy is supposed to work) with the Conclave up until the second mission of the the Protoss campaign. That is a fact.

Even if the Conclave were inclined to still provide support, it would only be in the department of "hopes and wishes" (I wouldn't see why they still should - insubordination is not something to be lightly disregarded as something "ok" by those who gave the initial order), not something material in terms of back-up/reinforcements given that Tassadar himself went rogue. Where would they send them to? What kind of "support" did you think I was referring to?