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Thread: Boxer On eSportsí Past and Future

  1. #21

    Default Re: Boxer On eSportsí Past and Future

    Even if you successfully withold a strategy, the level of "mind saturation" within the game means that eventually someone else will come up with a similar or even the exact same strategy over time. There's no reason to slow this down by locking replays. The strategy is yours only if you are the master of it. And then, if you have to depend on a few fixed strategies in order to win the game, you're really not much of a player. Winners can think on the fly and come up with crazy random shit that unexpectedly works for some odd reason. I've seen more points scored in American Football due to stupid crap than due to successful plays.

    I tire of "I found it first!" vs "That's not fair!" fights.

    In the end, nobody gets their way anyway.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Boxer On eSportsí Past and Future

    think the middle ground is to let the top two ladder levels have the ability to block the opponent from seeing their FPVODs. Opponents would still be able to view the replay from their own perspective.
    In order for the replay to accurately, you know, replay the game, it would have to actually store the replay data for both parties. Which means that this is just a form of DRM. And we know how long that lasts against millions of programmers. Encryption, memory checking, one-time keys, these are all entirely breakable. And once broken, your protection is for naught.
    "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." - C. S. Lewis

    "You simply cannot design a mechanic today to mimic the behaviour of a 10-year old mechanic that you removed because nearly nobody would like them today." - Norfindel, on the Macro Mechanics

    "We want to focus the player on making interesting choices and not just a bunch of different klicks." - Dustin Browder

    StarCraft 2 Beta Blog

  3. #23

    Default Re: Boxer On eSportsí Past and Future

    think the middle ground is to let the top two ladder levels have the ability to block the opponent from seeing their FPVODs. Opponents would still be able to view the replay from their own perspective.
    Honestly what more is there to see from a FPVOD rather than the video only? His hotkeys? That's hardly a decisive matter. You don't need a FPVOD to see the strategies involved in the game.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Boxer On eSportsí Past and Future

    You don't need a FPVOD to see the strategies involved in the game.
    No, but it does make it easier for you to calculate and copy the exact timings of things.
    "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." - C. S. Lewis

    "You simply cannot design a mechanic today to mimic the behaviour of a 10-year old mechanic that you removed because nearly nobody would like them today." - Norfindel, on the Macro Mechanics

    "We want to focus the player on making interesting choices and not just a bunch of different klicks." - Dustin Browder

    StarCraft 2 Beta Blog

  5. #25
    Operatoring's Avatar Junior Member
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    Default Re: Boxer On eSportsí Past and Future

    It truly does suck though. Someone spends the time to make up a completely new and fresh strategy from scratch that covers all the bases, throws curve balls at the enemy, and keeps him on his toes. After you go through all of this, someone watches your replay and copies you down to when you stop probe production, when you move out, etc. etc. This basically allows lesser players to stand upon the shoulders of great innovators and turns the game into generic cookie cutter matches. It sucks, but it's inevitable.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Boxer On eSportsí Past and Future

    It truly does suck though. Someone spends the time to make up a completely new and fresh strategy from scratch that covers all the bases, throws curve balls at the enemy, and keeps him on his toes. After you go through all of this, someone watches your replay and copies you down to when you stop probe production, when you move out, etc. etc. This basically allows lesser players to stand upon the shoulders of great innovators and turns the game into generic cookie cutter matches.
    Everything you just said is possible in any sport. So why isn't the result of every sport "generic cookie cutter matches?" Maybe that's a question that needs an answer.
    "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." - C. S. Lewis

    "You simply cannot design a mechanic today to mimic the behaviour of a 10-year old mechanic that you removed because nearly nobody would like them today." - Norfindel, on the Macro Mechanics

    "We want to focus the player on making interesting choices and not just a bunch of different klicks." - Dustin Browder

    StarCraft 2 Beta Blog

  7. #27

    Default Re: Boxer On eSportsí Past and Future

    You also have to practice the game and build high APM, not just know the strategies.

    And there's nothing wrong with knowing the other guy's strat down to the last detail, and executing it yourself with no flaw. It's learning and applying knowledge. If it works, then it works. If it doesn't, you look for a strat that does. It's all a part of becoming a better player, so what's wrong with that?

    The more knowledge everyone has of strats, the better the game will become.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Boxer On eSportsí Past and Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas View Post
    Everything you just said is possible in any sport. So why isn't the result of every sport "generic cookie cutter matches?" Maybe that's a question that needs an answer.
    I think the main point everyone is missing here, is starcraft II will be a game first, and a sport second. However, nothing to do with replays or watching your opponents actions have any damaging effects on other sports, therefore, logic suggests the same will be true for this one. If it's not true, I think thats evidence starcraft II should not be a sport at all.
    http://sclegacy.com/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=23&dateline=124193888  6

    Please stop the spread of Mass Effect!!!

  9. #29

    Default Re: Boxer On eSportsí Past and Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Santrega View Post
    I think the main point everyone is missing here, is starcraft II will be a game first, and a sport second. However, nothing to do with replays or watching your opponents actions have any damaging effects on other sports, therefore, logic suggests the same will be true for this one. If it's not true, I think that's evidence starcraft II should not be a sport at all.
    Its not so much "shouldn't" as "can't."

    Pick a sport. Any sport. Notice that every factor, EVERY FACTOR, is variable. Human limits, human will, equipment limits. Infinite possibilities. No 100% predictable outcome.

    Then look at StarCraft. Clones everywhere. Set rules, programmed, balanced. And thus possibilities, strategies limited. At least to a far larger degree than any physical sport.

    In boxing, adrenalin to make you punch faster, harder. In StarCraft, no amount of adrenalin in the player will make an Ultralisk attack faster, harder.

    The point is, StarCraft has limits. It needs to be balanced, all 3 races. Sports are not balanced. Sports are skill, will, luck. But not balanced.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Boxer On eSportsí Past and Future

    Quote Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid View Post
    Its not so much "shouldn't" as "can't."

    Pick a sport. Any sport. Notice that every factor, EVERY FACTOR, is variable. Human limits, human will, equipment limits. Infinite possibilities. No 100% predictable outcome.

    Then look at StarCraft. Clones everywhere. Set rules, programmed, balanced. And thus possibilities, strategies limited. At least to a far larger degree than any physical sport.

    In boxing, adrenalin to make you punch faster, harder. In StarCraft, no amount of adrenalin in the player will make an Ultralisk attack faster, harder.

    The point is, StarCraft has limits. It needs to be balanced, all 3 races. Sports are not balanced. Sports are skill, will, luck. But not balanced.
    The ultralisk won't attack faster but the non-spam apm can be faster. Starcraft is more skill oriented than what you are saying but it is true that it's obviously not at the same level as a real sports are.

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